Keris Betok on Ebay

[PenangsangII]

thks mykeris, ofcourse in determining the authenticity of a keris we should thoroughly inspect the physical aspect of the blade ist... Tayuh is a totally different method and objective altogether.

I even encountered a newly made koden from madura, but when it was tayuhed, it admitted origin back in demak era..... ,-)

[David]

MyKeris, you seem to to be deeply invested in convincing us that this is indeed an authentic Keris Buda. Is this keris now yours or are you looking to obtain it. Perhaps instead of pushing for members here to explain why they believe it is not authentic you could point out the aspects of this blade that seem to have you convinced that it is authentic.
Of course, much better photographs with extreme close-ups would probably aid in such a discussion.

"I would not swallow everything what Alan said unless he represents the Indonesian majority."
I'm not at all sure what this is supposed to mean. In a world that is as subjective as the keris world is, what exactly is an "Indonesian majority" and why does it matter in this instance? Are you suggesting a coalition of keris experts from across the entire archipelago (representatives from Malaysian as well of course) would come to some majority of agreement on anything to do with keris. Or are you speaking of a majority of the Indonesians represented only on this board? Or perhaps we could poll the entire populous of Indonesia on this keris buda and see what they all think.

[mykeris]

Noted and Thank you, have a nice weekend. Rgrds, Mykeris..

[A. G. Maisey]

I was tempted to put up a post on the vagaries of tayuh yesterday, Penangsang.

Then I thought better of it.

But you've opened this, so here is a little bit more.

My daughter's brother in law is very, very kejawen. A few years ago his wife passed away, and at the same time he retired from work. At this point he became very interested in keris, and began to acquire some. He only keeps keris that have a spirit in them, and that spirit must be either a pangeran or a kyai. He determines this by sleeping with the keris under his pillow and he knows from the dream he has if the keris has a spirit and what it is. Some of his keris are brand new, but they still have a spirit in them. According to him the spirit was already in the iron before the keris was made. He has been marginalised in the family because everybody thinks he is no longer all there.

Additional to this.

Over many years I have seen a number of keris that had been subjected to tayuh by noted and respected people associated with the Kraton Surakarta. All had some isi. Again, some of these keris were recent productions, usually from Madura. On the one occasion when I had the opportunity to question the man who did the actual dreaming, I was told the same thing:- yes, the keris is new, but the iron is very ancient and has life --- the isi was already in the iron before the keris was made.

There are many beliefs associated with keris. For somebody who believes, these things are real.

But if you don't believe, don't argue or try to convince otherwise, just accept that the other person believes, and walk away.

[GIO]

Just a short comment.
Have you noted that all keris claimed to be old (XVII cent.- or even before!) offered over the web are without any sign of rust ?
This is very interesting, considering that even recently-made keris have sometimes small signs of rust

[David]

Originally Posted by GIO

Just a short comment.
Have you noted that all keris claimed to be old (XVII cent.- or even before!) offered over the web are without any sign of rust ?
This is very interesting, considering that even recently-made keris have sometimes small signs of rust

I don't know GIO, i have keris that are 17th century and much earlier that have no obvious signs of rust. It's all about the maintenance.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, correct David.

It all depends on how the blade has been looked after.

[GIO]

Yes, that's true, but isn't it suspicious that ALL antique blades have been carefully looked after ?

[A. G. Maisey]

They haven't.

But if I had an old rusty keris that I wanted to sell, I'd clean it and stain it before I offered it for sale.

Everybody in the whole world who understands the beginning of anything about keris will do the same.

It is the correct thing to do with a keris:- you clean them and stain them.

So maybe the maintenance has been done regularly over a period of years, maybe it has only been done once , just before it was offered for sale, but whenever it has been done, it will result in a keris appearing with no rust on the blade.

[GIO]

Yes,OK, I agree

[Krikor]

Hello gentlemen I received last week this infamous Keris Betok from ebay, it is thick and heavy. As it looks under close examination it looks old, it is hard to tell how old, there are dark brown heavy aged patinas. You all are wright there is nothing close then able having it in your hand to look at very closely and to feel it. The jury is still out, if it is the real McCoy that would be bonus to my collection. Sometimes there will be a reward one who takes the leap of fate.

[David]

Originally Posted by Krikor

Hello gentlemen I received last week this infamous Keris Betok from ebay, it is thick and heavy. As it looks under close examination it looks old, it is hard to tell how old, there are dark brown heavy aged patinas. You all are wright there is nothing close then able having it in your hand to look at very closely and to feel it. The jury is still out, if it is the real McCoy that would be bonus to my collection. Sometimes there will be a reward one who takes the leap of fate.

There may not be a consensus on this keris Krikor, but i would hardly say that the jury is still out.
Welcome to the forum BTW.