Show us your Powder flask

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Fernando
I would say Pakistan Afghanistan or even Oman
but definitively not Persian

Amazing; i would swear that both Tirri and Stone call it Persian

[Kubur]

I see one like yours in Tirri's book.
But this poor Tirri did few mistakes.
Look in Elgood "Arms of Arabia" page 50, you have one like yours from Oman.
If you have the same type between Pakistan, Iran and Oman.
I would say that this powder flask is Balutch.
The Omani had a lot of Balutch soldiers during the 19th c.
Ibrahim should help us for that!!!

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I see one like yours in Tirri's book.
But this poor Tirri did few mistakes.
Look in Elgood "Arms of Arabia" page 50, you have one like yours from Oman.
If you have the same type between Pakistan, Iran and Oman.
I would say that this powder flask is Balutch.
The Omani had a lot of Balutch soldiers during the 19th c.
Ibrahim should help us for that!!!

I think we all probably agree that there are mistakes in Tirri's book, as there are in other publications, but then we are all still learning.
The item shown on page 50 of Elgood's book is indeed very similar to that shown by Fernando, BUT the text does not mention Oman, simply that the items shown are 19th century. No mention is made as to origin.
Stu

[stelio]

My opinion is that it has a container for oil cleaning that had for weapons.They think it's middle East in 19 century, maybe from Iran.I think that type use from all middle east area(ottoman empire,balkan country's ,arabia,Persia .

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Was going to wait before showing these but the thread is growing...............
By the way Berkley what about a full length of that Jezail..............
Assuming the pics line up ..
#1 Omani Wooden Flask
#2 Brass Arabian/North African
#3 Omani Talahiq Silver with gold decoration
#4 Silver Indo/Arab Primer flask
#5 Omani/Arabian Copper with brass decoration
#6 Omani with silver decoration
#7 Indian Barutdan...the cork of course is not original!! I should also add that this item is not here yet and the pic is the sellers hence the small size. Once it arrives I will post a better pic

Enjoy
Stu

Here is the Barutdan. This one came from the UK and is not one of the many aged??versions currently offered for sale from India.

[Kubur]

Hi Russel
I found that, Indian powder flask, very similar to yours...

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Russel
I found that, Indian powder flask, very similar to yours...

Maybe and maybe not. The item posted by Russel appears not to have any method of latching the top. The powder would just run out. The one you show Kubur seems to have a screw??spout?

[russel]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Maybe and maybe not. The item posted by Russel appears not to have any method of latching the top. The powder would just run out. The one you show Kubur seems to have a screw??spout?

This is from the seller's description:

"The decorative rings around the top hide the fact that the "loop" finial turns to lock or unlock it. If you look at the inside of top you will see an upper and lower flange or tab...the finial turns these to lock it."

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by russel

This is from the seller's description:

"The decorative rings around the top hide the fact that the "loop" finial turns to lock or unlock it. If you look at the inside of top you will see an upper and lower flange or tab...the finial turns these to lock it."

That clears up the issue.....Thanks.
Stu

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I think we all probably agree that there are mistakes in Tirri's book, as there are in other publications, but then we are all still learning.
The item shown on page 50 of Elgood's book is indeed very similar to that shown by Fernando, BUT the text does not mention Oman, simply that the items shown are 19th century. No mention is made as to origin.
Stu

So where are we getting at, Stu ?
Can i not (even) call it a Barut Dan ?

[Kubur]

Yes there is no mention of the origin but the objects of the whole set are from Oman. So I think your powder flask is from Oman or Balutchistan...

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Yes there is no mention of the origin but the objects of the whole set are from Oman. So I think your powder flask is from Oman or Balutchistan...

Could be either but there is a huge distance between the two places. Balutchistan (a part of Pakistan) borders modern day Iran which of course was called Persia......a VERY long way from Oman.
The fact that the pic shows mostly Omani objects does not CONCLUSIVELY mean that they are ALL Omani.
Stone's Glossary shows this general shape as being from Persia and another similar shape as being from Sudan, so perhaps the shape was a rather universal one in the greater region............
IBRAHIIM WE NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE
Stu

[Kubur]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...n+powder+flask

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...n+powder+flask

I do not see any conclusive evidence here.....many of the items shown in the souks are not Omani. Certainly there is a powder flask of a similar type shown but that in itself does not prove it's origins.

[rickystl]

Hi Fernando. That is a really interesting flask. Hard to pinpoint. Hmmmm I don't believe it is Persian. My guess is Indo-Arab. Sort of built on the Persian design, but decorated in some what Afghan. But you don't usually see Afghan powder containers with such a pronounced curve. Rick.

[fernando]

Points noted, Rick.Thank you.

[junker]

Hi,

well you show me yours,
so I will show you mine.

Nothing special, but maybe the wooden one from northern africa (Elgood)

regards from
Dirk

[VANDERNOTTE]

two more for iden
saludos
jacques

[Kubur]

Where are they??

Dirk, yes your wooden one is from Morocco.
Probably Argania tree.

Kubur

[fernando]

Originally Posted by VANDERNOTTE

two more for iden
saludos
jacques

No pictures, Jacques ?

[VANDERNOTTE]

i have problem whise this dam machine...paciense
jacques

[VANDERNOTTE]

pic

[junker]

Thanks, Kubur.
I know it came fron Northafrica but i was surprised that it maybe made of arganian tree wood. Never thought of that. Thanks again.
Dirk

[Kubur]

Sorry guys, the powder flask that I showed you previously is not Indian but Afghan...watch this nice pic...

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Sorry guys, the powder flask that I showed you previously is not Indian but Afghan...watch this nice pic...

Interesting picture.....check out the guy on the right using what appears to be a rest to steady his aim. Also the placement of the gun stock during firing. The butt appears to be well below the shoulder. If the gun was of European design then the butt would normally be at shoulder level.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Stu,
You might find this interesting.
Regards,
Norman.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Stu,
You might find this interesting.
Regards,
Norman.

Yes thanks. The butt is off the shoulder but the look of it, more resting on the upper arm. Would have thought that the bruising would have been rather painful......

[stelio]

Two oil case for weapons,from balkan area in 18/19 century.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Where are they??

Dirk, yes your wooden one is from Morocco.
Probably Argania tree.

Kubur

Agree that the wooden flask is from Morocco - or my guess would be. Algeria.
This Thread has been much fun. It's great to see others powder and bullet containers. Would you have thought there would be this many among all of us? Lol. Thanks all for Posting. I actually have 2-3 more I forgot to Post originally. But will do so in due course. One especially interesting. Rick.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Interesting picture.....check out the guy on the right using what appears to be a rest to steady his aim. Also the placement of the gun stock during firing. The butt appears to be well below the shoulder. If the gun was of European design then the butt would normally be at shoulder level.

Yes! Great pic! I have not seen this one before. I'll save this in my library.
The Stands for these guns hard really hard to come by. There was an adjustable one that came up for sale about a year ago. But I was too late and missed it.
After firing the Afghan Jazail myself, I've come to a couple of conclusions the butt stock not only curves, but also tapers more thin as it reaches the butt cap. If you hold it under your arm pit, it's quite comfortable. And the butt cap does in fact seem to fit the upper most pert of the arm vs the shoulder. The Jazails tend to be barrel heavy, so that would absorb much of the recoil. And that has also been my findings. Rick.