Cretan Revolution Weapons 18th century - Page 2

Jim McDougall · 3rd May 2014, 11:38 PM

Now that we have mirrored this thread over from the ethnographic forum, to run concurrently we are hoping that the topic of these Cretan weapons might stir some interest here as well . The fact that these are peripherally European weapons as well as being part of the ethnographic sphere suggests that perhaps dual classification might bring more response .

We are hoping that other Cretan weapons might be entered here for comparison, while we look at the distinct features found on them .

fernando · 4th May 2014, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Nando, I had intended copy the thread link to the Euro forum yesterday, but completely forgot. :0

Will remedy that now.

A

Marcus den toom · 5th May 2014, 02:53 PM

A interesting pistol indeed, mainly because of the family history which allows us to date it. Without this information i would have guessed that this piece, eventhough the iron/silver (?) work is well made, is not older than 50+ years or so

.
There is a rather lively market for pistols when offered to tourist and you see these products more than often.

This pistol however has quite a lot of original parts, like the lock, counterplate, screws etc. A better picture would be helpfull to determine if the stock and barrel are original to the complete piece as well (not trying to contradict the family history) since caution is even more important on these guns

I also want to point out that a close examination of the brass butstock end cap would be enlightening. The form is strange to me

Skarts_ss · 14th May 2014, 02:13 PM

Guys!!!Now i saw all these....sorry about not sending more pics. I think that the pistol is European and was sold in Crete during the revolutionary years. I have seen in other collections different pistols of Cretan origin that look like Ottoman to me...to tell the truth i have seen many weapons of different origins here in Crete. Thats why i posted these weapons, in order to find out the exact origin.

Skarts_ss · 14th May 2014, 02:42 PM

How about these weapons?Photograph (black and white); cabinet card; portrait of a Cretan revolutionary chief he has a basalis (knife) and pistols tucked into his zounari, and a rifle in front of him leaning on the rocks; Crete, Greece.

batjka · 15th May 2014, 04:15 PM

I would NOT want to mess with this guy. Thanks for sharing.

E Farrell · 20th May 2014, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarts_ss

How about these weapons?Photograph (black and white); cabinet card; portrait of a Cretan revolutionary chief he has a basalis (knife) and pistols tucked into his zounari, and a rifle in front of him leaning on the rocks; Crete, Greece.

Do you happen to know anything about the etymology of the word basalis? Is it associated with social rank at all; does he carry that specifically because he is a chief, or would others carry a basalis as well?

I'm curious whether or not it comes from the same root as basileus, or if it's just the English transliterations that look similar?

OP: the Yatagan is gorgeous. Was it originally gilt? Do you know what the scabbard is made of? I can't quite tell from the image - it looks texturally like antler, but seems too large for that.

Andreas · 21st May 2014, 04:29 PM

[QUOTE=E Farrell]Do you happen to know anything about the etymology of the word basalis? Is it associated with social rank at all; does he carry that specifically because he is a chief, or would others carry a basalis as well?

I'm curious whether or not it comes from the same root as basileus, or if it's just the English transliterations that look similar?

Basalis (stress on last syllable) derives from the Turkish word baş, head, chief, especial and the meaning is a superior knife. Anyone could carry it.

14th May 2014, 02:42 PM	#35
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	How about these weapons?Photograph (black and white); cabinet card; portrait of a Cretan revolutionary chief he has a basalis (knife) and pistols tucked into his zounari, and a rifle in front of him leaning on the rocks; Crete, Greece. Attached Images

3rd May 2014, 11:38 PM	#31
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Now that we have mirrored this thread over from the ethnographic forum, to run concurrently we are hoping that the topic of these Cretan weapons might stir some interest here as well . The fact that these are peripherally European weapons as well as being part of the ethnographic sphere suggests that perhaps dual classification might bring more response . We are hoping that other Cretan weapons might be entered here for comparison, while we look at the distinct features found on them .

5th May 2014, 02:53 PM	#33
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	A interesting pistol indeed, mainly because of the family history which allows us to date it. Without this information i would have guessed that this piece, eventhough the iron/silver (?) work is well made, is not older than 50+ years or so . There is a rather lively market for pistols when offered to tourist and you see these products more than often. This pistol however has quite a lot of original parts, like the lock, counterplate, screws etc. A better picture would be helpfull to determine if the stock and barrel are original to the complete piece as well (not trying to contradict the family history) since caution is even more important on these guns I also want to point out that a close examination of the brass butstock end cap would be enlightening. The form is strange to me

14th May 2014, 02:13 PM	#34
Skarts_ss Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47	Guys!!!Now i saw all these....sorry about not sending more pics. I think that the pistol is European and was sold in Crete during the revolutionary years. I have seen in other collections different pistols of Cretan origin that look like Ottoman to me...to tell the truth i have seen many weapons of different origins here in Crete. Thats why i posted these weapons, in order to find out the exact origin.

15th May 2014, 04:15 PM	#36
batjka Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 39	I would NOT want to mess with this guy. Thanks for sharing.

21st May 2014, 04:29 PM	#38
Andreas Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ionian Islands, Greece Posts: 96	[QUOTE=E Farrell]Do you happen to know anything about the etymology of the word basalis? Is it associated with social rank at all; does he carry that specifically because he is a chief, or would others carry a basalis as well? I'm curious whether or not it comes from the same root as basileus, or if it's just the English transliterations that look similar? Basalis (stress on last syllable) derives from the Turkish word baş, head, chief, especial and the meaning is a superior knife. Anyone could carry it.