Inscriptions in Navajas, for Chris and who else

[fernando]

Hi Chris

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Fernando ... enjoys the added advantage of not only being fluent in Spanish, but also Portuguese.

You mean i am un-fluent in Spanish ( Castellano ) and a-fluent in Portuguese. Both languages are familiar and is quite easy to check what you want to say with the help of the Internet miracle. You type the word you feel that must exist, in the browser, and in one nanosecond you get the confirmation of the term ... with the right spelling.

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Now that I think of it, I for one would love to read something from him on navajas in his country - After all, Portugal and Spain are right next to each other

Chris, you are getting me into troubles

I have not much to say about it, starting by my lack of background on the subject.
Please consider the following as a digestive overview, with no expertize comitment ... at all

It appears that he Spanish Navaja, with its semanthic implications, found no replica in Portugal. I mean the Navaja comprehending the device that locks it open, intentionaly for use as a weapon ... the aledged result of sword prohibition.
These were and are called in Portugal, Navalhas de ponta e mola ( point and spring ), and they could and still can be seen around, but basicaly imported from Spain ... partly smuggled in the old days. Contraband between the two borders was a "normal" way of life.

We do have Portuguese Navalhas, or Canivetes when they are small, but without the charisma of those developed by our neighbours. We have them in several styles and dimensions, but no lock built on them. Not that they would not contextualy be used as weapons, but this would demand some care from the user, under risk of folding it with the stroke and cut his fingers, rather than cutting his oponent's guts .
So undoubtfully when a ( Portuguese ) guy intended to equip himself with a fighting piece, he would acquire a Spanish locking example in the black market.

Portuguese knives are, like in Spain, made by industrial cuttlers and also by several small artisans. We still see the late in artisan fairs, all over the country.
Also custom made specimens appear in "boutiques", with exhuberant design, for elite customers, at speechless prices.

But our registered background is rather modern, comparing with that of "nuestros hermanos".
The first regiment for professional cuttlery was published around 1770, a consequence of traditional sword making, which was an abundant occupation in prior days.
This not avoiding that utensile small knives ( Navalhas ) were not made in different chanels ... but i don't think so. Daggers would be more the issue.

But in order "not to leave the credit in allien hands", i will here attach a picture of a Portuguese specimen, of traditional form and fully operational ... only that it weighs 122 kilos and measures 3,90 meters. This piece was made to acquire the title of biggest existing Navalha, and is so registered in the Guiness book of records.
All the best
Fernando

[fernando]

I hope Freebooter doesn't mind ( much ) if i show here my pride and joy.
Santa Cruz de Mudela, XVIII century.
This one has 28 cms.(11") blade. A bit too large for what is considered an operational piece, but i would say it was its actual purpose. It was found in the ruimns of Castro Marim Castle, just across the river from Spanish Ayamonte. The decoration and the probable motto are practicaly gone.
Mind you, apart from this specimen, the couple others i have are close from junk .
I will have to buy some more decent ones.

[Chris Evans]

Hi Fernando,

Thank you for that very informative essay on navajas in Portugal. Did the Portuguese also have to suffer the same weapon bans as the Spaniards in the 18th century?

Cheers
Chris

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice to see another lovely item Fernando, I too would hold it dear if I had it in my collection. and the story behind it's find even more so. I beleive we are all the same here in respect to wanting to improve our knowledge and enhance our collections.
I have written here the script on the Alero Garcia blade but it all makes no sense to me.
"Cuando acaricia mi mano la cacha de esta navaja hast los valientes tiem lau al ver mis bravos hauzanas"

The cursive script is hard to read but that's what I got.

Many thanks too Fernando, for posting the navaja sayings, without it I might just have passed this wonderful sight by in further search of such notes I was looking for.
And Cylord21, thanks for bringing the King of Spanish folders to light in the closed forum you presented.
I have my eyes on a genumine Romani folder too guys, if I am successful in obtaining it I will be sure to include it here, though saying that, I have no kidney to sell as I traded one for the large blade I have and it looks like I may have to starve for a month to get it, but it will be worth it...any food donations can be sent to me via the vikingsword staff......

[Marc]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Nice to see another lovely item Fernando, I too would hold it dear if I had it in my collection. and the story behind it's find even more so. I beleive we are all the same here in respect to wanting to improve our knowledge and enhance our collections.
I have written here the script on the Alero Garcia blade but it all makes no sense to me.
"Cuando acaricia mi mano la cacha de esta navaja hast los valientes tiem lau al ver mis bravos hauzanas"

The cursive script is hard to read but that's what I got.

Many thanks too Fernando, for posting the navaja sayings, without it I might just have passed this wonderful sight by in further search of such notes I was looking for.
And Cylord21, thanks for bringing the King of Spanish folders to light in the closed forum you presented.
I have my eyes on a genumine Romani folder too guys, if I am successful in obtaining it I will be sure to include it here, though saying that, I have no kidney to sell as I traded one for the large blade I have and it looks like I may have to starve for a month to get it, but it will be worth it...any food donations can be sent to me via the vikingsword staff......

I'm sorry for not participating more actively in this thread, extremely busy, these days, but, nonetheless...

"Cuando acaricia mi mano la cacha de esta navaja hast los valientes tiem lau al ver mis bravos hauzanas"

After a bit of "clean up", this would probably read (or wanted to read, "creative" orthography in these texts having already been mentioned as something characteristic):

"Cuando acaricia mi mano la cacha de esta navaja hasta los valientes tiemblan al ver mis bravas hazañas"

Which would translate, more or less, as:

"When my hand caresses the side slab of this navaja even the brave tremble when seeing my valiant feats"

Here "side slab" is used, by extension, as synonymous of "handle, hilt". In cutlery, a "cacha" is one of the slabs of horn or wood (or other material: mother-of-pearl, plastic, micarta, you name it) applied to the side of the hilt of a knife. On a related note, you can also find it applied to the slabs used in the sides of a revolver or other hand-guns. Hence its use, by extension, to design the handle or hilt of a knife or a gun.

By the way, about the term "vibora"... in Spain it usually designs a definitely poisonous snake, a viper. "Serpiente" is used as the generic term for snakes, with "culebra" being also used sometimes as a generic, although this last term usually designs snakes of the non-poisonous variety. Here, "cobra" is used for the hooded, non-native and more exotic poisonous variety.
"Víbora" is also not rarely seen applied to women with a particularly sharp tongue and a inclination for cruelty, but let's better not go there...

I hope this helps a bit...

Best,
Marc

[fernando]

I Freebooter,

No need to thank
My willing to help and please others, is surely greater than my knowledge of things .

This is a raw translation of what i reach so far:

Originally Posted by freebooter

"Cuando acaricia mi mano la cacha de esta navaja hast los valientes tiem lau al ver mis bravos hauzanas"

When the grip plates of this navaja caress my hand, even the valiants have ? at watching my brave ?

I will try and dig into the two missing terms ...maybe they are either misspelled or very old ... maybe even allegoric.
...Maybe Chris can decipher them?!

All the best
Fernando

[fernando]

Oh, Marc has just came in with the Cavalry.
Thank you Marc, for giving a hand.
Fernando

[Chris Evans]

Hi freebooter&Fernando

Originally Posted by fernando

Oh, Marc has just came in with the Cavalry.
Thank you Marc, for giving a hand.
Fernando

I don't think that I can do any better than Marc, in fact, I think that he hit the nail on the head. Congratulations Marc and well done. How did you manage to link "hauzanas" with "hazañas"?

The only thing that surprises me is that given that navaja was probably made after WWI, that the fellow responsible for the inscription couldn't spell/write any better than that. Had it been a 19th century piece, it would have been on par for the course, but 1920s or even later? Never mind, Freebooter, you have a very interesting piece there. I have not seen any such "heroic"scripts on post 1900/WWI navajas. Most carry the ubiquitous "Recuerdo de..." because by that time largish navajas ceased to play a significant social role and were bought mostly by tourists - Urbanization and law enforcement took care of that. Also such a broad blade was not what was wanted in a knife that may have had to be opened in anger.

Cheers
Chris

[Gavin Nugent]

Well done and many thanks Fernando and Marc.
Upon reading your post Marc and seeing how the letters should be formed I can see where my interpritation of the cursive script took a wrong turn. If I can weave some camera magic I will endevour to get some images of the script on the larger blade for everyone to view, though it is lost in places.
I am also trying to find a PDF file I have here some where which is an article from the New York times in 1908 writing about the government "raiding" major culters in Spain and confiscating any blade longer than 6 inches due to the carnage across the country. If anyone does have a copy of this article feel free to post it before I do. I will also, when time permits, scan an image of Albecete knife cutlers I have in a reference book.
Chris, I will post a few images of the Alvero Garcia blade too, maybe the makers stamp and style of etching and fittings can reveal more about it's age. Maybe, just maybe it is pre 1908????
PS "Viper" sits better with me in the grand scheme of things.

Gav

[Gavin Nugent]

Enjoy the reading fellow enthusiasts.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...CF&oref=slogin

I'd be interested in hearing any feedback regarding this article.

Gav

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

I don't think that I can do any better than Marc, in fact, I think that he hit the nail on the head. Congratulations Marc and well done. How did you manage to link "hauzanas" with "hazañas"?

Thats the advantage of having the language actually corporised. You can infer, even despite mispellings, instead of only try to realize the construction of the term with the letters available. I would never make it. The Portuguese word for it is "façanhas", the spelling makes the difference.
Glad Marc saved the situation .
Fernando

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gav,

First, allow me to thank you for that wonderful contribution of yours by way of that newspaper article. It adds significantly to our sum total of knowledge.

Now down to work:

1. Re The Article: That newspaper article smacked a bit of sensationalism - But then, what's new?. In Spain there were regularly issued edicts going back to the early 1700s restricting all kinds of weapons and their manufacture - In fact, it was on account of these laws that navajas came into being. Forton tells us that by the end of the 18th century so strong was the persecution of cutlers that the industry in Spain became a mere shadow of its former self; This opened the flood gates to French imports during the 19th century.

1.1 The stringent laws referred to in the article were passed in November 1907 and further reiterated in 1923, 1929, 1935 and 1941. I include the wording in Spanish at the end of this post.

1.2 What we don't know is the consistency with which these laws were enforced. There is little doubt that probably for economic reasons and political instability in the 19th century, enforcement was more lax in some areas and times than others. However, we do know by the prevalence to this day of navajas without any locks that they were enforced - Inconsistently, yes, but nevertheless enforced. From the importation figures of the 19th century folders, the vast majority without locks, we have every reason to believe that the locking navaja was anything but normative.

1.3 What I found interesting is the description of the Spanish fight/duel. I always held the suspicion that far from being deadly fights, "mano a mano" they were events of ritualized posturing with little if any blood shed. I have had chance to observe this first hand in Sth America, where the same tradition prevailed. Of course it is not easy to prove that this was indeed the case and the incidence of violent crime clouds the issue. However, this article reinforced my belief in this matter.

2. Re Your Navaja:

2.1 It is extremely difficult to date navajas with accuracy. All we can do is take clues from the following:

- Era in which the cutler was active; And
- typology, manufacturing methods used, materials etc.

We do know that the external spring, "muelle de teja" appeared around 1900, so it can't be any earlier. We also know from pieces in collections that Spanish blades up to that time tended towards being slender and pointed. After the turn of the century they rapidly became broader, somewhat aligning with the earlier French imports that on the whole reflected a utilitarian design - And this suggests a later date.

We have already covered the issue of grinds, so I won't repeat it here.

One possible way to narrow down the time frame is to find out which year did the manufacturer cease to use the "Alvaro Garcia" brand on their blades. Did his son continue using it? You could try writing to the industry body in Albacete, APRECU. This is their website: http://www.cibercuchilleria.com/in/inicio.asp


2.2 I for one would love to see more photos of your navaja. Especially that of the engraving. For that matter, of any other navajas that you may have.



Cheers
Chris

Here is the wording is Spanish:

Ante las reiteradas consultas que se formulan al Ministerio de la Gobernación sobre cuáles son armas prohibidas y cuáles las permitidas en España, la Real Orden de 9 de noviembre de 1907, a fin de evitar errores en el futuro, señala en su articulado: "son prohibidos los bastones de estoque o con chuzo u otra arma blanca oculta en su interior, así como los puñales de cualquier clase que fueren; las navajas con punta de más de quince centímetros de longitud comprendido el mango y los cuchillos de monte y caza, que sólo podrán ser vendidos a quienes presenten licencia, la cual sólo se expedirá a los que realmente la ejerciten". Esta Real Orden deja al prudente arbitrio de las autoridades "elapreciar si el portador de cuchillos, herramientas, utensilios o instrumentos precisos en usos domésticos, industria, arte, oficio o profesión tiene o no necesidad de llevarlos consigo, según la ocasión, momento o circunstancias; debiendo en general estimar innecesario e ilícito el que traigan las concurrentes a tabernas y establecimientos públicos y lugares de recreo o esparcimiento, sobre todo tratándose de individuos que hubiesen sufrido condena o corrección por faltas contra las personas y por uso indebido de armas".

The full article can be downloaded from:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...n&ct=clnk&cd=1

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gav,

We are in luck.

On page 94 of "Introduccion Al Estudio De La Cuchilleria Artistica De Albacete", by Ferrer, there is a 54cm (open) navaja by Alvaro Garcia, that looks just like yours and was made in 1910.

It does not have the engraving on the blade and the handle decoration is different, but the profile of the blade and handle are pretty much the same as yours.

Unfortunately my scanner is down at the moment, but when I get it working again I will post it here.

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Hi Folks,

Scanner is going again. Sorry about the orientation but it is the only way that I could post it.

Cheers
Chris

[Gavin Nugent]

Your the man Chris, I will be wanting to pay you a personal visit one day. Great work everyone, you all have a vast array of knowledge to draw from!! We are all learning heaps in this forum.
With regards to the large navaja I have here, I think reading the script would be greatly benefited by a good clean, there is some heavy pitting to the blade that does make the script a bit of guess work and I know can never be put right, but I feel with with a good clean and a consistant surface to view the words, a clean might just help get this insciption deciphered, or maybe some one knows some one who can read old Spanish and lives in Brisbane Australia.
I have seen all sorts of methods spoken of for cleaning blades, but what would be best in this case or should I just forget the thought and be happy with what is.

regards

Gav

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gav,

1. Would like to meet you also. Very few navaja enthusiasts in Australia. If you are heading my way drop me an e-mail and we'll meet. I just sent you my address by PM.

2. Re Cleaning

This is an ever recurring question - Conservation or Restoration.

Probably it is best to leave it alone. I take the view that an antique is a window to the past and anything that could diminish or obliterate the historical record is undesirable. With that said, I think very light cleaning should be OK.

Cheers
Chris

[Marc]

Spanish is one of my "mother languages", so in fact there's no real merit in me being able to fill the gaps... I'm used to antique inscriptions, also, especially in weaponry/cutlery, so this one was not that hard... it's people like Chris or Fernando who have real merit by being able to provide such huge amount of knowledge from the "outside", even if it's such a close "outside" as Portugal

Glad to be of any help, always.

Best,

Marc

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi guys, below as another link I had stashed away for a rainy day. As I too have a great interest in ship wrecks, treasure hunting and diving, I was quite interested when I stumbled accross this Spanish galleon article some time ago that crossed into my love of navajs, enjoy!

http://www.melfisher.org/navajas.pdf

Gav

[fernando]

Hi Gav

Originally Posted by freebooter

http://www.melfisher.org/navajas.pdf

Thanks for the ( one more ) link.

This is one more reason for you to buy LA NAVAJA ESPAÑOLA ANTIGUA by Forton.
Among precious info and pictures, you will find there, stuff matching with what is said in this link as also, for example, that Jan Sanders painting "The surgeon". Another interesting info is the origin of the word Navaja. And a zillion of other precious things. Although it is in Castillian, there's lots of visual stuff ... and there is Chris, to give a hand at translating some punctual parts

[fernando]

Hi Chris

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...n&ct=clnk&cd=1

That's great, thanks. I saved it in "My documents".
Fernando

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gav,

I saw that paper quite some time ago. Despite that it contains some good information, I consider it misleading and wasn't overly impressed with his sources To be fair, there is precious little in English on the subject, save for one of Forton's books that carries captions to the photos in both languages.

There are many even in Spain who are so keen to mythologize the navaja as to ascribe its origins way back in time. I for myself side with Forton who to my mind convincingly argues that the navaja could only make its appearance after the Burbons ascended to the Spanish throne and out of fear of rebellion banned all effective weapons. Before that time, Spaniards had far better weapons at their disposal. This is not to say that razors and similar folders were not in use before 1700, for they were, but rather that a recognizable cut and thrust clasp knife just did not appear in Europe until after that time.

As an aside, I'll mention that the prevailing Spanish view is that they invented the navaja and after the Bourbons chased the best cutlers out of the country, they took their craft to neighbouring lands. I find this quite credible, because the early Italian clasp knives that I have seen are almost replicas of the Spanish ones, albeit of better quality.

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

A Spanish cutlery maufacturer's workshop at the turn of the century. Also the traditional tools of the cutler which they still largely use, but only for the making of custom navajas. Taken from "Introduccion Al Estudio De La Cuchilleria Artistica De Albacete", by Ferrer

[Chris Evans]

A modern custom navaja cutler at work with his archaic drill. Yet they turn out masterpieces like this, which he was working on. Taken from "Introduccion Al Estudio De La Cuchilleria Artistica De Albacete", by Ferrer

[Chris Evans]

Two depictions of the much celebrated Spanish duel with navajas and its Argentinean equivalent. In all instances a cape or jacket is used for parrying. Because of less stringent legislation against fixed blade knives, in the Latin Americas the navaja found no favour at all. Illustrations taken from Abel Doemenech's "Dagas de Plata".

[Chris Evans]

Hi Folks,

At this link you can see how a traditional navaja is made. Ufortunately the text is in Spanish, but the pictures pretty much say it all. Note how all the tools are quite archaic. It is because such labour intensive methods are used, that a traditional navaja costs so much and why by the end of the 19th century the Spanish cutlery industry was completely uncompetitive against its European counterparts

http://www.dipualba.es/publicaciones...ciano%20n8.pdf

Cheers
Chris

[Ypoznan]

Witam

I would like to add information consistent with the title of this topic. Based on several studies and with the help of my Spanish friends, I managed to collect some inscriptions which were placed on Navajas. Spanish translation of the inscription is the Polish language, but the page you will find translator, with the performance of which automatically translate the text into English.

http://www.navaja.pl/artykuly/80-ins...h-navajas.html