The Keris of Majapahit

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, a keris hilt can also indicate status, as can any number of other dress indicators, body language indicators, or language indicators, but there is nothing like the constant presence of one's personal shrine to remind a man who he is and what his position is. The necessity was to control the man who wore the keris, not to indicate that man's status to others. By inclusion of religious iconography the keris became a personal shrine.

Thank you Alan, this is revelatory...you have taken information i have been aware of an presented it in a way i had never quite considered.

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

(...)there is nothing like the constant presence of one's personal shrine to remind a man who he is and what his position is. The necessity was to control the man who wore the keris, not to indicate that man's status to others. By inclusion of religious iconography the keris became a personal shrine.

Alan, that is what the very first sentence of my previous post is about.

Please accept my apologies for not properly understanding the places in your paper, where you speak about Keris as a "societal status indicator".

I also never suggested, your theory, which, I repeat, seems generally to be very plausible to me, would come as revelation out of a clear blue sky.

[A. G. Maisey]

It seems I owe some apologies.

David, what I have written in this thread was pretty much all included in "Interpretation", but that paper went through about 16 drafts, and with each draft it became smaller and more compressed, it was intended for a general readership, and on a superficial level that is what it finished up as, but to really understand what I wrote a lot of background knowledge was required. Based on the feedback I've received on "Interpretation", I'm inclined to believe that only one person other than myself really understands what I have written.

So, will you please accept my apologies for my failure to write in a sufficiently complete way.

Gustav, I also owe you an apology for my failure to understand the intent of your first sentence, and a further apology for my own inadequate writing.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

It seems I owe some apologies.

David, what I have written in this thread was pretty much all included in "Interpretation", but that paper went through about 16 drafts, and with each draft it became smaller and more compressed, it was intended for a general readership, and on a superficial level that is what it finished up as, but to really understand what I wrote a lot of background knowledge was required. Based on the feedback I've received on "Interpretation", I'm inclined to believe that only one person other than myself really understands what I have written.

So, will you please accept my apologies for my failure to write in a sufficiently complete way.

Well Alan, i neither believe that you owe me an apology nor that you've expressed yourself poorly in "Interpretations", which i've read more than once. As i stated, this information was not new to me, i was just capable of understanding it in a deeper sense this time around due to how you have expressed it on this thread. Like a puzzle piece suddenly snapping into place.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you David.

[rasdan]

deleted

[rasdan]

Thank you Alan for your kind explanation on the word keris and keris status in Mojo era.