Two Indian Knives for interest and/or comment

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hello estcrh, nice selection. Have you any images of Kukris with a false back edge similar to the blade of my knife? I have not seen one which is another reason for my believing it to be a custom made knife.
Regards
Miguel

I do not remember seeing another one like yours, either the blade or hilt. If I run into one I will post it here.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by estcrh

From what I have observed there are two types of Indian tiger tooth jambiya, and they are a type of jambiya....one type has a thick blade and the tang is also thick.

Don't get too caught on about the thick and thin tangs that you presented and I think thick and thin would also need to be quantified.
There is certainly age between the examples presented here but the tangs on those noted as thick are not actually seen, what is seen is a grip strap.
With consideration to weapons typically found with grip straps, Kilij, Yataghan, Khyber knives etc, for the most part, the grip slabs are pinned through the tang but sit well clear of the tang and the tangs on these weapons are no thicker than any other weapon of the time place or period.
I am certain there are variances in thickness with age, but I do not believe it is all that vast at all.

Gavin

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Don't get too caught on about the thick and thin tangs that you presented and I think thick and thin would also need to be quantified.
There is certainly age between the examples presented here but the tangs on those noted as thick are not actually seen, what is seen is a grip strap.
With consideration to weapons typically found with grip straps, Kilij, Yataghan, Khyber knives etc, for the most part, the grip slabs are pinned through the tang but sit well clear of the tang and the tangs on these weapons are no thicker than any other weapon of the time place or period.
I am certain there are variances in thickness with age, but I do not believe it is all that vast at all.

Gavin

Gavin, maybe I should have said that I have never seen a tiger tooth jambiya without a grip strap that had a wootz blade, I believe that the examples I posted that I described as being "thin" have no grip strap. You have certainly seen more examples than I have, do you remember ever seeing one of the lower quality ones with a wootz blade?

[Miguel]

I do not remember seeing another one like yours, either the blade or hilt. If I run into one I will post it here.

Cheers.
Miguel

[Silver John]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hello estcrh, nice selection. Have you any images of Kukris with a false back edge similar to the blade of my knife? I have not seen one which is another reason for my believing it to be a custom made knife.
Regards
Miguel

Hi Miguel,

I know you were addressing another member, but I thought I'd chime in. I have seen a number of these knives over the years, though never in the flesh. IMHO it's definitely a style of blade, made over an extended period of time and in varying levels of quality.

Here are a few examples I found with a quick google search.






As you can see, there's a fair bit of variance, I think you picked up a nice example.

Regards

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Silver John

Hi Miguel,

I know you were addressing another member, but I thought I'd chime in. I have seen a number of these knives over the years, though never in the flesh. IMHO it's definitely a style of blade, made over an extended period of time and in varying levels of quality.

Here are a few examples I found with a quick google search.






As you can see, there's a fair bit of variance, I think you picked up a nice example.

Regards

Good job, what search words did you use? They look like a kukri varient.

[Silver John]

I remembered seeing a few examples with jade handles, so I searched for "Indian kukri jade handle" and went from there.

There are three more similar examples in this thread too: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=83113

They're described as "early tourist kukri (1920-40) Northern India"

[Miguel]

Hello Silver John, you have made my day, thank you for your info and pics I am much obliged. I can see them being tourist souvenirs but that does not rule out them being sold as hunting knives for European tourists
Regards
Migue

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Regarding my knife with a kukri type blade, I agree that it is Indian as made in India with an Indian style blade but I don't see it as an Indian Kukri.

Miguel......"early tourist kukri (1920-40) Northern India"

[Jens Nordlunde]

Eric, did you see the peacocks??
Seldom something is written about the decoration, when it is hard to see what is shown, but not many seem to be interested in the 'hidden messages'.
I have often been wondering why?
Jens

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Miguel......"early tourist kukri (1920-40) Northern India"

Yes everything seems to point to that fact.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Eric, did you see the peacocks??
Seldom something is written about the decoration, when it is hard to see what is shown, but not many seem to be interested in the 'hidden messages'.
I have often been wondering why?
Jens

Hello Jens, I think you may have answered your own question.
Miguel

[Jens Nordlunde]

I find the dagger with the blue background shown in post 19 interesting, as I think it is a former 17th century karar from south India, changed into a dagger in the 19th century, when the south Indian armouries was sacked, and more tourist pieces were needed.
The decoration on the blade is important, but one can not see the fullers clearly from the pictures. I do, however, think that the fullers may show this change if they can be examined.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Eric, did you see the peacocks??
Seldom something is written about the decoration, when it is hard to see what is shown, but not many seem to be interested in the 'hidden messages'.
I have often been wondering why?
Jens

Jens, you have a trained eye from many years of looking at good examples. Ever since I read what you have had to say about unseen (to most people) images I have been looking closer but often I can not see what is there until someone points it out.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Jens, you have a trained eye from many years of looking at good examples. Ever since I read what you have had to say about unseen (to most people) images I have been looking closer but often I can not see what is there until someone points it out.

Dont worry. It takes quite some time, and a lot of studying - but in the end...

[Silver John]

Hello Jens,

I'd like to ask, do you see the peacocks in the gilt sections, or in the negative of the bare steel? Or both?

I was recently looking at peacock imagery on some kukris, so perhaps I'm just seeing them everywhere, but I can see two small ones in the gilt and two large peacocks in the negative.

Are there any threads, or reference materials on the Peacock imagery? I'd like to learn more on the topic.

Regards

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hmm, I only see two peacocks, shown in the gold decoration.
They are easier to see on the katar attached.
Have a look at the katar and the dagger. Do you see why I think the dagger originally was a katar?
Btw on the katar you can see four peacocks, two on the blade and two on the hand guard.

[Silver John]

Unbelievably I didn't spot those peacocks!

I'll have to see if my very basic photoshop skills will allow me to point out what I see. Though I strongly suspect what I am seeing will be more like a case of faces in the clouds.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Like Eric writes in post 33. He has never seen this kind of dagger with a wootz blade. Neither have I as I can remember.
This is an old minupilated kater blade, likely done end of 18th century or early 19th century.

[spiritualwarrior1978]

That is anice kukri, I have seen one of those somewhere before. Like someone said previously if you ever get bored...... it would match a few of my pesh kabz/chooses with mother of pearl inlay