What Constitutes a Kraton Keris?

[Pangeran Datu]

Sampurasuuunnn ...

Sorry, wrong placement

Amit munduuurrr ...

[Kiai Carita]

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

..... Just a massage for your admirable daughter, if she please, she should learn one step further, the 'Bagongan' language, which is spoken only in Keraton, until today. It is easy (if you already master the krama), but it's limited use make it very exclusive. I cannot imagine how Javanese react if a foreigner spoke it

Best regards,

boedhi adhitya

Salam perkerisan,

Just to clarify, Bagongan language is only used inside the Yogyakarta Kraton and it is not any easier to learn if you know krama inggil because it uses a whole different vocabulary. It is an egalitarian language with no levels like Krama - Ngoko, a royal version of the Samin dialect from around Bojanegara.

A very informative thread.

Salam,
Bram.

[Pangeran Datu]

Sampurasuunn ..

Hello All,
I'm testing my ability to post pictures I hope it works. If not, please accept my humblest apologies.

Cheers.

Amit munduurr ..

[David]

You appear to have been successful P.D.
Do you care to tell us where the collection in the photos is from?

[Pangeran Datu]

Sampurasuunn ..

Originally Posted by David

You appear to have been successful P.D.
Do you care to tell us where the collection in the photos is from?

Hello David,
I just happened by to check on my success or otherwise and read your query.
I believe the pictures are of part of a Display Collection at one of the palaces of the Cirebon Household. They were recently passed on to me by a member of the Household, who knew of my interest in kerises. As to in which palace; that, I don't know. (However, I suspect this Collection may be in the Karaton Kasepuhan complex, as I know that they have a museum there).
(BTW, in the polite circles of the region, the more refined term DUHUNG is used instead of KERIS, just as duwung/curiga/wangkingan is used as a more refined term by other such circles).

Regards,

Amit munduurr ..

[Alam Shah]

Hi Pangeran Datu,

Thanks for the pictures. The glare and the flash are affecting the overall quality of the pictures. Cannot see much unfortunately, mostly profiles of the pieces.

Would appreciate the effort for better pictures.
These looks like fine kerises. Good effort.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pangeran Datu

(BTW, in the polite circles of the region, the more refined term DUHUNG is used instead of KERIS, just as duwung/curiga/wangkingan is used as a more refined term by other such circles).

Thanks for the info. I do believe most of us here are very familar with these other terms for keris. There are even more than that if you delve. I hope you aren't implying that we are not being "polite" or "refined" in our use of the word keris. We are, after all, a collector's forum and the term "keris" is the most universal and immediately understood term for it. It makes the most sense to use this word and i don't think we are being disrespectful in that use, are we?

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Pangeran Datu

(BTW, in the polite circles of the region, the more refined term DUHUNG is used instead of KERIS, just as duwung/curiga/wangkingan is used as a more refined term by other such circles).

Pangeran Datu, I believe the term is confined to Javanese and some nearby Indonesian culture only. It does not apply to Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, Sumatra, Kalimantan, Riau-Lingga Archipelago and Sulawesi. Keris is also known by other names in their local dialects.

Therefore, as common ground, in this public forum, I believe "keris" is the most appropriate to be used.

[Pangeran Datu]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for the info. I do believe most of us here are very familar with these other terms for keris. There are even more than that if you delve. I hope you aren't implying that we are not being "polite" or "refined" in our use of the word keris. We are, after all, a collector's forum and the term "keris" is the most universal and immediately understood term for it. It makes the most sense to use this word and i don't think we are being disrespectful in that use, are we?

Sampurasuunn ..

Hello David,

My sincerest apologies for causing any concern to you and others. The last comment in brackets of my last post was merely meant as a sort of footnote (for the uninitiated) for the use of the term 'DUHUNG' in the title. The 'region' referred to is the region around Cirebon.
Of course I am aware of the many different terms for the same thing that pervades the South-East Asian archipelago. That's the nature of the beast, when you have such diverse groups and languages. I am also aware that, as English is the lingua franca of this forum, keris/kris is the accepted term.(Even in the archipelago, keris is the term used generally).
Once again, I beg forgiveness from those of you whose sensitivities I have transgressed upon.

Regards,

Amit munduurr ..

[David]

Thanks for your clarification Pangeran Datu.