Afghani pulwar: old and ( perhaps) revealing

[ariel]

Jose,
Usually, such pommels are described as " onion-like" in the literature.
But even if it is solidly spherical, it does not change a bit: as I reported earlier, Google Images finds them in ~10% of cases. Most importantly, the one with white arrow is unquestionably just like mine. One is enough to prove the point:-)
Again, thanks to Mahratt to provide this information.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Battara

It does remind me of a rounded poppy. Interesting.

Jose
Thank you for confirming that everything is in order with my eyesight

Ariel is right when he says that "Google Images finds them in ~10% of cases", when referring to the spherical pommels of pulwars sword
(But this is a monitoring based on swords of the 19th and early 20th centuries).
But, perhaps Ariel did not understand me, because of my bad English. Undoubtedly, the shape of the pommel, as on his sword, is quite archaic (although I would not rush and date the sword with the 16-17th century, since this shape of the hilt was preserved even later).
I just support the opinion of Ibrahiim, who believes that the spherical shape of the hilt top (pommel) can be more archaic than hemispherical ... A confirmation of this (in my opinion) is that on miniatures of the 15-16th century spherical pommel swords are found as often , like hemispherical. And sometimes spherical pommel swords are found on miniatures even more often than hemispherical.

P.S. I apologize for my bad English.
If need to explain something from my words, I will try to do it.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THE principle of course should always be to retain and nurture the research and nature of forum, hopefully without some falling out on a personal attitude. It's a good thread and some valuable artwork is up for discussion.

I LOOKED AT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7gzQAUBHio and noted that the use of small pebbles in the hilt is noted at Matt Eastons work on the timer at Video at APROX. 3.17.

The video also goes into the various strokes with such weapons and discusses some earlier variants. The cyclic nature of rotating cuts using this design are clear and noted as also very damaging when used by mounted Cavalry.

[Ian]

Sorry to come to this one late. I've been dealing with health issues for several weeks and have just returned here.

The pommel illustrated on a number of these swords could also be a lotus bud. The lotus flower is an auspicious item in a number of cultures, especially among Buddhist societies, and is prominent for example in SE Asia. Both Thai and Burmese dha/daab have featured pommels based on the lotus motif. Typically, these pommels are somewhat pointed at the end, as seen on some of the examples shown here.

Ian.


Attached: Picture of lotus bud ...

.

[ariel]

Ibrahiim,

Easton discusses handles from purely technical point of view: in his lecture the handles of Tulwar , pulwar and of “basket” type are presented as consciously constructed creations to adjust fencing techniques and that required changes in their appearance.

I suspect the reverse was true: these handles were products of fashion, imitation of foreign patterns, esthetics etc. The final results necessarily dictated a range of technical moves ( wrist involvement etc)

He looks at them as an European : objective goals dictated engineering decisions. Stabbing is more effective: therefore we need a straight sword optimized for stabbing; slashing is better when the distal part of the blade is wider and heavier, thus the British 1796 pattern; evolution of European sword from heavy and massive Northmen type, to more slender one to adjust to the introduction of a sectional mail, to “dress” sword and to status symbol one when swords outlived their purpose etc.

But Eastern weapons by and large were created as objects of art or religious symbols and many of them were of bizarre form, barely fulfilling the requirements for practical use. Then, in a hindsight we try to find alleged purposes of their engineering designs, potential advantages ( or, more often, defects), but the best we can come up with is veneration of one god or another.


There were exceptions, of course, but rather few and far between. Chaka’s conscious modification of the local spear marked a whole new concept of a conduct of war. On the other hand, cinquedea was a purely esthetic creature, but as a result of its technical awkwardness it did not survive long:-)

It is a “ cart and horse” question. Europe virtually always put the horse first, but Easterners ( Indians and Indonesians first and foremost) were happy to show their carts.

P.S.
Ian,
We crossed our posts. Your lotus example perfectly illustrates my point.
BTW, the open cup of early Afghan and NW Indian pommels likely mirrored Hindu urulis (Durga’s cooking vessel), or a bowl of plenty.