![]() |
![]() |
#31 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 221
|
![]()
scottie rip, ask sulu bout "cocky"...czechov beam me up?
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#32 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
|
![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#33 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
Guys:
Let's cut slovak some slack here. English is not his first language, and he may not know some of you have been contributing to this forum for several years and have a deep knowledge of the Moro kris. Welcome to the Forum, slovak. There is actually a considerable amount of information and pictures of Moro kris to be found on these pages, which can be accessed through the search engine, including information about the straight-bladed version of the Moro kris which is sometimes called a sundang in the local culture (reference to this term can be found in Robert Cato's book, Moro Swords). We have quite a passionate group of Philippine weapons enthusiasts on this forum, and I hope you will be able to share your experience and knowledge with us. Ian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#34 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 221
|
![]()
I didn't read any apologies for the racial stereotype or moderators removing the statement, that was in plain english. btw my apologies for the "cocky" jk and no disrespect to czechs and scots, just an old treky fan and wanted an alien retreat from us lowly humans
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#35 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5
|
![]()
Thank you very much Ian. I appreciate your kind words. At last, one honourable individual.
![]() I'm not backing up my reasons because i dont see that i need to. Think why. It is soooo.. this forum. Just look at this thread, my way and your way is the wrong way. (yeah.. u will said yours is the right one). Im using arrogance against itself and as usual, it will cause problems. So many problems can be avoided with a little understanding an patience. (Now u can sing the song - We are the world) ![]() Last edited by Ian; 6th November 2005 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Removal of offensive language |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#36 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
Guys:
I'm locking this thread pending review of some of the comments by the Moderators. Ian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#37 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
Several comments have been removed from earlier posts because they have been deemed offensive by the staff.
Ian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#38 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO
Posts: 169
|
![]()
Wow!
I didn't realize my statement of calling these swords a sundang would bring a maelstorm of feedback... It looks like we have a new "expert" on this forum... It's obvious Mr. Slovak is unfamiliar with Philippine weaponry of Christian, Muslim, and anismist origin. And even more obvious, unfamiliarity with the various dialects of Philippine languages as well as the history and culture of the Philippines. The term "sundang" is used in almost every dialect across the Philippine archipelego to refer to a long bladed weapon used as either a weapon or tool. This refers to the bolos in the north to the krises of the south. As I said, calling these weapons (including the odd barong-like sword that started this thread and the T'boli hilt kris mentioned later) a "sundang" would be a safe and appropriate term that wouldn't offend any Filipino....Ilocano, Tagalog, Visayan, T'boli, Maranao, Bagobo, etc.... However, I find it amusingly funny that the term "sundang" which is universal in the Philippines to be offensive to Mr. Slovak....who obviously isn't Pinoy...di ba? It's obvious our new expert in sandata knows more than the rest us; having to use racial comments and appear arrogant...or what the Filipinos would call "mayabang." But I'm not here to debate our new expert...there's no point. I made my statement before to call these swords a sundang to be "safe" since it's a general term used for any long bladed weapon or tool in the Philippines that wouldn't offend any Filipino. But it seems the non-Filipinos are the ones offended. I rarely post here anymore to avoid these debates and confrontations. I haven't even shared the new knowledge I learned in the month I spent across the Philippines recently. That would open up a new can a worms and maybe cause further discord. It's best to keep that knowledge to myself....to avoid conflict with so called "experts." ...experts like Mr. Slovak Besides, debating over swords and sword terms is fruitless...especially sitting in the comforts of your home. Go to where they are still made and used...and truly learn. Mr. Slovak debating you would be pointless. Your narrow viewpoint and arrogance would be a hinderance to you. It would be like you coming to a fight with a fork....and me armed with a sundang....tagain kita! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#39 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,287
|
![]()
Hi Zel , Mr. 'slovak' has been dismissed .
I sincerely hope you will continue to post . We do our best to keep the place swept . ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#40 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 177
|
![]()
Dang, I leave home for a few hours and the house gets cleaned!!!!!
![]() Thanks Rick and Ian. ![]() ![]() But who's going to clean the windows?? Thanks to Nechesh and others for defending the cause. Now, my opinion of the swords that started this throwdown. 1. Its a newer made sword to resemble a Barong with the locals twist of style added to it. I think Palawan because of the curvy lines or Basilan because of the belt notch carved into the scabbard, just like Pira scabbards, but I'm sure Zamboanga can have a better opinion, considering his location. 2. Definetely a T'boli interpretation of a Moro Kalis Tulid, with not much attention to detail in the gangya and 'gandik' area. Just my uneducated opinion that could be way of base. ![]() Last edited by LabanTayo; 7th November 2005 at 04:06 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#41 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: zamboanga city, philippines
Posts: 132
|
![]() Quote:
Mabuhay ka! and the rest of the mods ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#42 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
Walang anuman
Ian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#43 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: zamboanga city, philippines
Posts: 132
|
![]() Quote:
I agree with you that it is a newly made sword. I'm sure it's maranao-made and I agree with Battara's earlier comment that it is made for the market. My tausug and yakan friends are thrown in a frenzy whenever they see these on the market. They don't know whether to laugh or cry. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#44 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
|
![]()
First to the moderators - salamat po!
![]() Secondly, Zelbone, I do wish you would post more. I and others with whom I speak learn much from you and others like yourself on this forum. ![]() ![]() Third, Zamboanga, I'm curious what the Yakan and Tausugs do say about these that come on the market. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#45 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: zamboanga city, philippines
Posts: 132
|
![]() Quote:
To them these are simply barong wannabees. The blade profile is wrong; the puhan profile is wrong; no ukkil on the puhan; the blade is usually thin and not laminated, etc. And mostly of all, these are not made or produced by people who are historically associated with the barong. In essence: paraded as barongs, now that makes them laugh. To attract such a high price because of this pretension, that makes them cry. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#46 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,200
|
![]()
Thank you, Zamboanga. This is helpful. I have noticed that same thing in this description, and wonder about the types I have seen that are so narrow (and thin) that I question that they are truly barongs. Some call these sipput, though I cannot say that I have examined all of this type. Certainly those similar to what we are discussing are not what I have called "legitimate" but in respect to those who have objected, I don't use the term "tourist" in public.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#47 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 221
|
![]()
Zel, holding back? any new info on the demonhead "sundang"...lol
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#48 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 177
|
![]()
Mabagani,
The news is that they're calling it sundang in the south, north and middle, and sometimes in hong kong, they call it siao pao. They used to be called talibong in the mid 40's and bolo in the 70's. Before 1898, they were called espada. I hope that clarifies everything for ya. ![]() btw, that was total sarcasm...... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#49 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 55
|
![]()
"Do not try and say its a sundang. That's impossible. Instead ... only try to realize the truth."
"What truth?" "There is no sundang." -sorry... i couldn't resist.... plus zel took my line.... but honestly.... it really would just be accepted as a sundang... p.s. apologies for the matrix-like comment |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|