OLD OR JUNK?

[A. G. Maisey]

Brekele, I think you may be confusing me with somebody else.

I do not sit meditating in a cave, and your reference in the other thread which you have running at the moment, to a westerner conversing with Lombok dealers at some time in the past was most certainly not a reference to me.

Yes, I have used meditation as a tool for virtually my entire life, at least for as far back as I can remember, but I do not isolate myself to meditate.

I thank you for your compliment that I know the field of keris, however, my knowledge of keris in general is very slight. I have some small and very limited understanding of certain aspects of the keris, but these aspects are almost never touched upon in discussion in this, or any other forum, or which I am aware. The comments that I usually make in this forum are simply the repetition of either published information, or general knowledge within the Javanese keris community. Definitely nothing special, nor necessarily a reflection of my personal views..

Regarding the difference in the material used in gonjos to that used in blades.

I have no opinion on this.

However, generally accepted belief in Jawa is that there are a number of possible reasons:-

in an old keris, it could be to replace a lost or damaged gonjo, or it could be to replace a gonjo used in the manufacture of a keris intended as the "son" of the original keris; a gonjo without pamor could also have been used to conceal the pamor used in the blade, as a measure of protection for the owner.

In a recently made keris it could be to give the impression that the keris is older than it may appear to be.

In both old and recent keris it could be because the maker ran short of the same material as used in the blade, or forgot to cut off sufficient for the gonjo from the forging before welding in the core.

A number of possible reasons, and no way of knowing exactly why the gonjo material may differ from the blade material in any specific blade.

[brekele]

In both old and recent keris it could be because the maker ran short of the same material as used in the blade, [/QUOTE]

Yes yes, for KERIS MAKER now (empu modern); ran short of same material is reasonable/acceptable. yes..yes I know it, Planing to make 1 kodi keris became problem because of it (kekurangan bahan).

But for empu in old era, ran short of same material for gonjo?
hmmmm....
hhmm hhmm.....

hey, why not.......also reasonable!

I guess the gonjo of my keris also because of that problem
Oye...oye.

[cahaya]

hi Mr. Brekele

can we look a ditail keris, a number 4 from the left (from your collection) ? pic No.1

thnks

[brekele]

Hi Cahaya, sorry if it is too late to answer because a bit busy somewhere to find new inspiration.
The keris you ask is on hold now, So....I have to ask new owner if it's allowed to put detail pictures of the keris here.
But at least I'll let you know for that news for sure. Thanks.

Hi all
In this OLD OR JUNK section I need you guys again, specially those guys with superman eyes.
I found this foto from a person who want to sell his spear. (in webside).
But the foto is difficult to see.
Also if it is possible for information about this spear.
Guys, will you help a boy name Bre? Please?
I dont know how to describe this spear, Is it karna tinanding naga kikik or what? Thank you Guys.

Hi Dave, loooooong time no see, how are you?
Dave, I hope is oke to put the spear in your warung.
Is it oke?
Thanks Dave, I miss you.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

in an old keris, it could be to replace a lost or damaged gonjo, or it could be to replace a gonjo used in the manufacture of a keris intended as the "son" of the original keris; a gonjo without pamor could also have been used to conceal the pamor used in the blade, as a measure of protection for the owner.

Let me join the sharing, would you mind?

I agree with Alan's opinion. But there was a tradition too in the Mataram era, they use "ganjawulung" or black-colored ganda. So totally different material, and different time frame in the making. And of course, it was in purpose. Keris with ganjawulung -- mainly kerises from the Mataram era and some from majapahit era -- if they were "asli" (original) they should be good kerises. Because, kerises with ganjawulung usually were given by the king at that time. The "asli" ganja, was kept in the king's palace.

Why did the Javanese king or kings in the past they kept the ganjas or gonjos in their palace? Because, they believed that the "yoni" or the spiritual strength of every Javanese keris is in the gonjos. So, everytime the king wanted to give some of good kerises to their family, or even obedient officer in the palace, usually he took off the gonjos, and replace with "ganjawulung". The king desired, that the "yoni" was still staying in the palace, even if the kerises were given away.

But, what Alan just said is correct too. I learn that from my friends -- contemporary empu like Yantono (Alan knows him well of course) - or other keris makers like Yanto, or (one of my favorite Kamdi) and also from Madura like Zulhan (young keris maker, one of the best in Madura).

About gonjos? When the Palace of Solo was burnt, about 10 years ago or so, people found many gonjos in the palace. That proved the "theory" of ganjawulung not false... Solo is my native city, so I know it well, Brekele...

[David]

Originally Posted by brekele

Dave, I hope is oke to put the spear in your warung.
Is it oke?
Thanks Dave, I miss you.

Actually Brekele, it is not my warung, i just moderate here...and drink lots of kopi.
I like to think that this forum belongs to everyone.
...and i miss you too Bre...
As for your tombak, if you will read the forum rules (these rules were set by higher authority than myself ) you will see that discussion of blades currently for sale is forbidden. You must understand that there could be legal consequences with the seller if our opinions here were to talk someone out of making a purchase. Buy the piece and we will be happy to discuss it. The same if it is taken off the market. This is legal protection for the forum,

[Rick]

Excuse me, but I am going to step in here and suspend brekele for ten days for discussing an ongoing auction and or posting a picture of said item.

See you in ten days brekele; please read the forum rules carefully.