Is this an "old man's hobby"?

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Andrew

44

Martial artist for 35+ years, which naturally led to an immediate unatural compulsion to acquire every conceivable hand weapon available.

Oo, oo - what kind of martial arts?

[Emanuel]

30, started collecting at 23, essentially when I joined this forum

I had purchased a "Lake Toba" keris-like object on ebay that turned out to be a horrible POS. One post here and some wonderful lessons from Henk put me on the right path
Then a look at the Vikingsword glossary and a copy of the "Big Book of Stone" got me hopelessly hooked.

[kahnjar1]

THANKS GENE You really know how to strike deep!! 68 and have been collecting for about 40 years, but don't hold that against me. Age is but a number, and one can do all sorts of things with those! My mind is still SHARP
Stu

[trenchwarfare]

Bought my first bayonet, at the age of nine, 1966. Now, at 55, I still don't know what I wanna collect when I grow up.

[VVV]

My first sword was a waki zashi in the early 70s.
Now I am 52, which makes me the oldest of the European Borneo collectors active at this forum.
Can't we change the title of this thread from "old man" to "middle aged man" based on the replies?

Michael

[Tim Simmons]

53 in the new year. Started as a boy with Grandads ww1 buttons.

[spiral]

ahh well done Gene I fear, from the repleys, I was more of less correct then.. In the western world most edged weapon collectors are a little older than us, & a very few are younger.. {Im just on 49..}

ive noticed most collecters, collect what they either saw,heard about or wanted when they were children to a degree...{With notable exceptions of course.}

In England many people wont even let there children play with toy swords or guns anymore.... I understand why, but fear this will have a greater & greater effect in how weapons collectors are seen in years to come.

These thoughts comes about because Ive noticed at arms auctions there loads of men in there mid late 50s & especialy 60s & early 70s and not many younger than me.

mmmm much to ponder....

J

[M ELEY]

Started in my early twenties (back when the original forum was around, 1990's) and am now 45 (but I feel 85, too many night shifts, ugh)
Mark

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

... Have been discussing the 'average' age of collectors of edged weapons today with Spiral and most seem to me men in their 60s!...

I was gonna swear we had once a (actual) poll on this subject ... statistic results and all. Now, finding it is hard deal .
My butt has now 65 notches and i started slowly gathering whatever type of antique weapon that came across my sight and i could (often even couldn't) afford, (only) twenty years ago. Now i am trying hard to refine my taste, following the Port Whine principle .

[Greybeard]

This December I'll reach age 63. I started in my early teens with a khukri, given to me as a gift by my parents. For some time now, I'm very into the Indonesian keris -- a lifelong love of mine, but I wasn't able to buy these until relatively recently ...

[Pukka Bundook]

I'm 58, and been collecting stuff since I was about 7 or so.

First purchase was an awful Syrian dagger, from a school friend, for 2 shillings and sixpence.
First bayonet was a 1907 pattern Wilkinson, looking brand new, for one pound.
Tulwars at the time cost three pounds each, or two for five quid....with silver or gold koftgari.
We thought they must be chat, and didn't buy any. Besides, we didn't have a fiver!
First muzzle-loading gun was a cut down flint fowler, converted to percussion, with broken stock
Fixed it up and used it a long time. It was magic!...and cost nine pounds.
Swords came a bit later,(In the last 10 years) with the added benefit (?) of a chance to sparr.

I do think this is the same as sports cars;
By the time you can afford them, you are too old to drive them!...

Richard.

[Royston]

56

Started when I was 18 after years of admiring a saw-backed K98 bayonet that belonged to my Grandfather. I still have it now. Collected bayonets for a few years then went to work in Sabah in 1982 and got interested in S.E Asian weapons. There were lots about in the UK in those days. Like most collectors I can still remember the things I should have bought while they were available. Oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Roy

[bhushan_lawate]

32 now and collecting since the last 8 years or so....!!!!!

[RDGAC]

25 since July and a history geek since I can remember. First weapon I ever acquired was some tiny little dagger, supposedly Indian, which my grandfather acquired god-knows-where or when, and by which I was fascinated inordinately. Jezails became my thing after I heard about them from my dad (also a history buff to an extent), and we acquired one at work (which is documented here). Unfortunately, due to Britain's obsession with gun control, getting a crack at shooting any isn't looking likely for some while.

Hopefully I'll still be doing this when I turn 70-odd and can barely remember which end of the piece does what

[Iain]

Originally Posted by RDGAC

25 since July and a history geek since I can remember. First weapon I ever acquired was some tiny little dagger, supposedly Indian, which my grandfather acquired god-knows-where or when, and by which I was fascinated inordinately. Jezails became my thing after I heard about them from my dad (also a history buff to an extent), and we acquired one at work (which is documented here). Unfortunately, due to Britain's obsession with gun control, getting a crack at shooting any isn't looking likely for some while.

Hopefully I'll still be doing this when I turn 70-odd and can barely remember which end of the piece does what

No private gun ranges where you can shoot unlicensed? I'm surprised black powder is heavily regulated.

In any case good to see there's a few of us under "middle age" here.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a fantastic thread Gene! It is a great opportunity for us all to get to know each other a little better, understand more on our interests, which is wonderful perspective.
Actually its not an 'old mans' hobby, but a lifelong passion! It seems most of us 'old timers' are simply still pursuing what overtook our very being in much younger years.
I am 67, and have loved history and intriguing mysteries from my earliest memories. My dad was a bomber pilot in WWII, mom an army nurse, and he remained flying so we were always around military bases. The war was still a recent memory and materials were everywhere and my first interests were in medals, patches etc. Then I saw bayonets in surplus stores, and began reading about swords in dictionaries and encyclopedias and noticing how many kinds there were! It was the beginning of an obsession that has only progressed.
My first actual sword was actually an old Moro keris which was in a guys garage, and I won by helping him sand down an old Model A frame. The rest is as we say 'history'
While I truly enjoyed collecting, despite limited means, I discovered that far more important to me were books, so I could learn more about the swords.
I began the assembling of what became an ever growing library, and an ever widening scope of interests in the history of historical arms.

These days the book lined den and modest groupings of worn swords are memories, and given way to a nomadic lifestyle in the RV we affectionately call the Bookmobile (for the key volumes stashed in every nook and cranny). ...and my passion for the study of arms is focused mostly in the years of writing on these pages. Naturally as most here know very well, I am seldom ever brief on anything.....so this follows suit

It is great to know more on you guys, and best of all to share in this wonderful passion of ours with all of you. You guys are the best!!!
Thank you so much !!!

All the best,
Jim

[RDGAC]

Originally Posted by Iain

No private gun ranges where you can shoot unlicensed? I'm surprised black powder is heavily regulated.

In any case good to see there's a few of us under "middle age" here.

It's surprisingly heavily regulated, since it's legally classed as an explosive. (Modern smokeless stuff, by contrast, is not - I have not a clue why.) See here for some information. The amusing bit is that I can waltz into any old shop and buy fireworks with a reasonable quantity of BP in them over the counter, no questions asked.

You also need a good reason to have it - for shooting powders, you'd therefore need a shotgun (Section II) license, if you were using a smoothbore gun, or a Firearms (Section I) license if using a rifled musket. Shotgun certs are easier to get but you still have to jump through hoops.

Far as I know there hasn't been such a thing as an "unregulated", legal, operating firearm of any kind here since 1968.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

.
Actually its not an 'old mans' hobby, but a lifelong passion! It seems most of us 'old timers' are simply still pursuing what overtook our very being in much younger years.

Great stuff Jim but the fear is that in the west not many young men take up collecting this sort of stuff knowadays... Not like when when we were young men , then many boys/men were interested in guns & swords.

Spiral

[Norman McCormick]

Originally Posted by RDGAC

25 since July and a history geek since I can remember. First weapon I ever acquired was some tiny little dagger, supposedly Indian, which my grandfather acquired god-knows-where or when, and by which I was fascinated inordinately. Jezails became my thing after I heard about them from my dad (also a history buff to an extent), and we acquired one at work (which is documented here). Unfortunately, due to Britain's obsession with gun control, getting a crack at shooting any isn't looking likely for some while.

Hopefully I'll still be doing this when I turn 70-odd and can barely remember which end of the piece does what

Hi,
DO NOT under any circumstances shoot an antique weapon without first having it looked at by a competent gunsmith. I believe Rick (rickystl) shoots antiques but as far as I know he has the barrel relined before firing them. If you want to have a go at muzzleloaders join a local gun club with a muzzleloading section. Blackpowder is classed as an explosive in the U.K. and is subject to different storage regulations to smokeless powders and a license specifically for blackpowder is required. Always safety first.
Regards,
Norman.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by RDGAC

It's surprisingly heavily regulated, since it's legally classed as an explosive. (Modern smokeless stuff, by contrast, is not - I have not a clue why.) .

Black powder is a simple but very effiecent, off low explosive, Smokeless generaly is not, it burns in a more more even progresive manner, I understand.

As for fireworks.....Its the old habitual stuff I guess, rather like if tobbaco was discovered today it would be illegal.

Spiral

[fernando]

Originally Posted by spiral

... Its the old habitual stuff I guess, rather like if tobbaco was discovered today it would be illegal...

Indeed when tobbaco appeared in Europe, in all its pure strength, the effects were so frightening that, in some nations, even death penalty was established ... i think in France.
... Just a curiosity note

[fernando]

Originally Posted by spiral

... In England many people wont even let there children play with toy swords or guns anymore.... I understand why, but fear this will have a greater & greater effect in how weapons collectors are seen in years to come...

It's an option, Jonathan ... but also a different approach .
I wouldn't let my children play with toy weapons; but my (only) daughter enjoys my pleasure for antique ( i mean antique) weapons .

[RDGAC]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
DO NOT under any circumstances shoot an antique weapon without first having it looked at by a competent gunsmith. I believe Rick (rickstyl) shoots antiques but as far as I know he has the barrel relined before firing them. If you want to have a go at muzzleloaders join a local gun club with a muzzleloading section. Blackpowder is classed as an explosive in the U.K. and is subject to different storage regulations to smokeless powders and a license specifically for blackpowder is required. Always safety first.
Regards,
Norman.

Norm, when it comes to kit I agree with safety first, believe me. I've no issue with the Proofing laws in this country, which I think entirely sensible and, indeed, in one's ownj interest and those of the gun trade as a whole. Firing an unchecked barrel is always going to be a risky business, and, while I resent the implication that I'm too bloody stupid to grasp that idea, I understand that it's simply too big a minefield to leave people to get guns checked competently of their own volition.

My disagreement lies with the (IMO) too-restrictive firearms ownership regulations in Britain, which is a whole different kettle of fish, not for this forum.

Regarding clubs, my nearest muzzle-loading club is in Wakefield, about 30-40 miles (or an hour's travel time) away. I did look at going there, but since I'd need to obtain a gun of my own to shoot there anyway, it hardly seemed worth the effort - especially since I'd need the attendant paraphernalia of cabinets and other security devices, which I can't afford, and which I'd be unlikely to be able to install in any case (rented accommodation). It's rather like driving - I could probably afford to learn to, and I could probably afford a car, but I couldn't afford to fuel it, tax it, or insure it. Theoretical freedom compromised by practical restrictions. Most frustrating at times.

I'd very much like, if I could acquire one with a good barrel, to have a shoot with a jezail, as I said. Sadly however, that's going to require a lot of hoop-jumping - licensing, storage, Proofing, acquiring a powder license, and then acquiring the powder, as far as I can see. Land of hope and glory, mother of the free, indeed.

Spiral: Thanks for that enlightenment. I had read it was supposedly due to BP being much easier to ignite by heat or naked flame, as well. My opinions on smoking law are a discussion for elsewhere, methinks - wouldn't really fit the forum's rules!

[spiral]

Originally Posted by fernando

Indeed when tobbaco appeared in Europe, in all its pure strength, the effects were so frightening that, in some nations, even death penalty was established ... i think in France.
... Just a curiosity note

Wow! Id never heard of that! Off to google!

J

[spiral]

No not France, Russia,China & some Muslim states..


Great link on history of tobbaco....

linky on the weed...

spiral

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by spiral

Great stuff Jim but the fear is that in the west not many young men take up collecting this sort of stuff knowadays... Not like when when we were young men , then many boys/men were interested in guns & swords.

Spiral

Quite true Jonathan, at least in the public relations end of things. It seems that the political correctness syndrome has swept so many museums and people believe that shielding the public from these 'deadly things' will prevent violence. Actually here in the U.S. the interest in weapons does remain quite prevalent, but with the unbelievable expense of authentic antiques and fakes running rampant, it seems reproductions are more the mainstay.
It is true however that in my huge family with kids, legions of nieces and nephews, and my grandkids, none consider my fascination with historic weapons as anything but weird. There was a ray of light though with one of my nephews who my brother informed me was intrigued by knives. He is quite young, but I gave him an old theatrical knights sword, which will be kept for him but it will be his, his eyes lit up as he saw his fascination with tales of knights and medieval times became real.

I saw exactly what I felt when I would hold a patinated, worn and often broken old sword which I had researched and found key regimental marks linking it distinctly to historical events I had long studied. Here was a piece of that history which had been there in 'real time'! These arms are the very sentinels of history, and long to tell us thier stories, if we will only take the time to seek the questions and answers.

That is why I have studied this obsessively most of my life, and my goal has always been to remind not just collectors, but the public at large, that these arms were far more than simple deadly 'tools' but the very iconic fiber of entire cultures, groups, tribes, Faiths, and patriots.

I know most of us well understand this, and thankfully here we strive to research these arms, discover and preserve thier history, well deserved in being held with that of the people who used them.

All the best,
Jim

[Shimmerxxx]

Interesting thread, I have wondered this myself when attending arms fairs.

I'm 39 and have had an interest in weaponry for the last 20 years or so. I know a few others of my age who have an interest, but none who are collectors.

Given the prices often involved in collecting I have thought that to be a determining factor in the ages of collectors. I have an average salary job but no kids or pets and don't go on expensive holidays and I can only afford the occasional piece here and there, and then those will be towards the bottom of the market. This is due to the cost of living, having a mortgage etc sapping all my earning before I can spend them on lovely shiny pointy things.

I'm also fortunate that my fiancée shares my interest in arms and armour, albeit not quite to the same level as me. If I had more outgoings and a missus less interested in my hobby I would imagine that I wouldn't be much of a collector myself. As it is, most of the time I have to make do with collecting photographs of weapons and books on the subject rather than the real thing.

Perhaps somewhat erroneously, I have assumed that the reason that the majority of collectors are older are that generation has paid off their mortgages and doesn't have any dependants, possibly retired, and therefore has more time and money to lavish on their interests.

It could just be that the older generation has more of a an general interest in history than the younger generation. This certainly seems to be true of my colleagues at work, it's difficult to find someone of my years or younger to have a decent conversation with!

[archer]

Well in a few months It'll be 74. Older but certainly no wiser. Love finding out about various weapons. You guys. have all helped with My quest.

Regards, Steve

[fernando]

Originally Posted by spiral

No not France, Russia,China & some Muslim states..


Great link on history of tobbaco....

linky on the weed...

spiral

Not so fast, Jonathan
You must widen your search; quite a few nations to pick.
I wouldn't wish to go off topic .
Just give you a couple tips: Persian shah Abbas-Sofi (1590) death penalty for those found chewing tobacco leaves; Shogun Tokugawa ( XVII century) 50 days hard labour for tobacco smokers; Turkey (XVII century) ears and nose ripped off; Tzar Russia (XVII century) off to Siberia or death penalty.

[kahnjar1]

Pleased to see the thread is "back on track".
I think that Shimmerxxx's post hits the nail on the head. Over the years the price of antique weapons has increased hugely, cost of living has gone up, and the economic situation worldwide has steadily got worse. All this has a bearing on what we collect and what we can AFFORD to collect.Certainly a partner/wife who also takes an interest, is a huge help to the man who collects.
DON'T FORGET THAT WE ALSO HAVE LADY MEMBERS HERE.
I suspect that age may not be as easily published , but time the Lady has been collecting would be of interest.
Regards Stu

Originally Posted by Shimmerxxx

Interesting thread, I have wondered this myself when attending arms fairs.

I'm 39 and have had an interest in weaponry for the last 20 years or so. I know a few others of my age who have an interest, but none who are collectors.

Given the prices often involved in collecting I have thought that to be a determining factor in the ages of collectors. I have an average salary job but no kids or pets and don't go on expensive holidays and I can only afford the occasional piece here and there, and then those will be towards the bottom of the market. This is due to the cost of living, having a mortgage etc sapping all my earning before I can spend them on lovely shiny pointy things.

I'm also fortunate that my fiancée shares my interest in arms and armour, albeit not quite to the same level as me. If I had more outgoings and a missus less interested in my hobby I would imagine that I wouldn't be much of a collector myself. As it is, most of the time I have to make do with collecting photographs of weapons and books on the subject rather than the real thing.

Perhaps somewhat erroneously, I have assumed that the reason that the majority of collectors are older are that generation has paid off their mortgages and doesn't have any dependants, possibly retired, and therefore has more time and money to lavish on their interests.

It could just be that the older generation has more of a an general interest in history than the younger generation. This certainly seems to be true of my colleagues at work, it's difficult to find someone of my years or younger to have a decent conversation with!