Strange flamboyant blade rapier on ebay

[Rick]

Thanks Norman .
Will all please consider the size of the blade Norman has shown; please tell me that it is lighter than the serpentine blade under discussion .

[katana]

Thanks Norman ,

Stylistically both pommels look almost the same .... still wondering whether they are just 'decorated' acorn pommels that do not represent anything specific.
Mid 16th C ...it would be nice to find other swords of the period, with the same pommel ...


The history of the pineapple is interesting though.....

"......Spaniards introduced the pineapple into the Philippines and may have taken it to Hawaii and Guam early in the 16th Century. The first sizeable plantation 5 acres (2 ha)—was established in Oahu in 1885. Portuguese traders are said to have taken seeds to India from the Moluccas in 1548, and they also introduced the pineapple to the east and west coasts of Africa. The plant was growing in China in 1594 and in South Africa about 1655. It reached Europe in 1650 and fruits were being produced in Holland in 1686 but trials in England were not success ful until 1712. Greenhouse culture flourished in England and France in the late 1700's. Captain Cook planted pineapples on the Society Islands, Friendly Islands and elsewhere in the South Pacific in 1777........"

Fearn.....apparently the 'pineapple' was coined by the English because it looked like a pine cone that grew in trees (actually technically a bush) like an apple. Bearing in mind alot of Europeans would not have seen one ...it would make sense that a 'pine cone' topped with apple leaves would become the accepted 'image'.

Regards David

.

[fearn]

Hi David,

Thanks for reminding me about the origin of the pineapple. Since we're on word origins, I'd also point out that the term pommel originated with pomme, which is, of course, an apple. I'm not sure whether older round pommels were meant to represent apples or pomegranates (latin for "seeded apple"), but that only points out that swordsmiths don't often make botanically accurate pommels, unless they have a reason.

That's the question here, though, is whether there's a reason for the design of this sword. As you indirectly pointed out, that reason can be tied up with the age of the blade.

In a 16th century pineapple pommel (if such a thing existed), the fruit would symbolize exoticism and the New World, and would probably be Spanish. If we assume that this is from the 18th or 19th Century, the pineapple might symbolize wealth, as in "I'm wealthy enough to finance a hothouse that lets me grow my own pineapples." In that case, the blade would be northern European. The pineapple also retains its air of tropical exoticism, but it's really a symbol of wealth.

We can look at some other pommels. For instance, an acorn pommel may simply be there as a skull crusher. Alternatively, if the acorn pommel is realistic, we might legitimately expect the piece to be a hunting sword. I'm not sure if there is a reason to have a pinecone on a sword, let alone a strawberry. When I thought about a raspberry, the image of Sir Framboise got me giggling, and I haven't pursued that line...

Personally, I still think it's supposed to be a pineapple. Unless Jim speaks up again and lets us know what type of fruit the freemasons think grows on the Tree of Knowledge that the flaming sword should guard... Then we might have something else to discuss.

Best,
F

[Gonzalo G]

According with German Dueñas Beraiz, an important scholar on spanish swords, one type of blade, very characteristic, but rarely identified with the spanish production, was the sword with a flammard blade. It was less known, because those weapons were not appreciated, and otherwise even censurated by the catolic church, as they were related with the devil and the serpent.

There are spanish swords with flammard blades in some museums, from Sahagun and Abraham de Vilina, probably a spanish-jew swordsmith, and another one form Juan Martínez.

I don´t belive they are masonic swords, but for fighting. Please see:

Dueñas Beraiz, Germán
"Introducción al estudio tipológico de las espadas españolas: siglos XVI-XVII"
Gladius, Vol. XXIV, 2004, pag. 217
Spain

Regards

Gonzalo

[katana]

Hi Gonzalo ,
thanks for the information....unfortunately I do not have access to the reference you provided, but I am in agreement with you, I think the majority of the older serpentine blades (not the victorian copies) were functional.
As has already been noted this particular sword has a nicely forged blade...and is likely properly hardened and tempered. The fact that is wasn't finely finished or 'polished' suggests to me, that it is even more probable that it was not a ceremonial / ritualistic blade.

Like Rick, I cannot find a similar guard shape and his 'jovial' suggestion of it imitating the Gangya of a Keris might not be as strange as it first appears ....certainly 'food for thought' or strange coincidence

Regards David

[fearn]

Gentlemen,

I really have to question whether it was functional. If you go back and look at the first picture posted, several things become apparent.

1. It's currently blunt

2. More importantly, the tip, because of the undulations, is not in line with the hilt or blade.

3. It's narrow,

4. It undulates widely,

5. It's thickest at the base, and thins towards the tip.

Now, basically a sword can chop, slice, or stab.

Can this one chop? Very badly. it's narrow, and it becomes smaller towards the tip. A good chopper would be wide and get wider towards the tip.

Can this one slice? A bit, but those waves are so big they'd probably decrease blade contact with the target (unlike, say, a saw). A good cutter would have a shape that brought a lot of edge into contact with the target.

Can it stab? Not well, because the tip's blunt, and even if the tip was sharp, it's not in a great line with the rest of the blade, Also, if you did stab someone, you'd have to push all those undulations (backed by air, not steel) into the wound. And pull them back out again.

Also, it's 51.5 inches in length, with a 41 inch blade, and it appears to be designed for single-handed use.

No, I can't agree that this was designed as a functional weapon. It's for display. Granted, it is sharp, but I'd hate to go into any fight with this thing.

F

[Jim McDougall]

Fantastic discussion guys!! and it is great to see everyone considering each others observations and offering constructive and well thought out rebuttal or reinforced ideas. What is really fun is the foray into the arcane esoterica of the Freemasons, botanical history of the pineapple and its place in myth and material culture, the dynamics of fencing and swordblade style and folklore of the sword, Theosophic perspective on arcane symbolism etc.... and all generated by this most unusual sword! Absolutely outstanding, and reading these well thought out posts and observations is the best.

In my repeated returns to looking at this sword, along with the developing discourse here, I keep returning to my original perspective on this being a Masonic tylers sword, despite all the merits of other observations offered suggesting India, Indonesia or those spheres of culture. As Rick has noted, the swept and outward design of the hilt does reflect the Indonesian style, but of course swept hilt rapier design, as well as asymmetrical hilts were a well known European feature.

There has long been considerable debate on the effectiveness of wavy, serrated and dentated blades, and I typically rely on the expertise on those well versed in martial arts dynamics for opinion on this subject. However, in most references I recall offhand, it does seem that these visually attractive blades were most often intended for parade, processional or symbolic purpose. It seems that by 'the book', these undulating blades carry more mass in similar length and 'more cutting surface', however it would seem to me that sometimes actual application of certain dynamics might not be so effective. I'd rather avoid the complexity of this discussion here, but its just my opinion, based mostly on various comments I have read, and the fact that these blades are seemingly rather uncommon that seems to affect my thoughts. The wavy blade of the keris will of course be brought in here, but I would submit that in my understanding, the 'luk' or waves seem to have more of an esoteric purpose than actual practical or combat purpose.

I think that the excellent 16th century Italian rapier posted by Norman is a telling example, and that Italian, Spanish and Portuguese weapons typically have profound similarities reinforces the characteristics of this piece. As Manuel has noted, the flammard was distinctly known in Spain, but further notes the negative connotation observed by the Catholic Church. With this being the case, the arcane and somewhat occult symbolism that is often applied to Masonic interpretation is somewhat recalled here.

As Norman has noted, the pommel seems cast, and I would suggest as well that the hilt itself seems cast, rather than chiselled as with most early rapier hilts I am familiar with. The addition of the metal adaptor to reinforce the blade suggests as noted that the blade and hilt were brought together as entirely separate components rather than made for each other. The fact that the blade, as noted by David, seems well forged and apparantly finely made may suggest it might have been from one of the earlier flammards of the form mentioned by Manuel.

It is well known that swords with either heirloom status or from various types of donorship in the deep brotherhood of Masonry, have often been placed in the honorary regalia of the Tyler. As I have mentioned, in later times, I believe even to this day, swords from early military status, as well as more modern replicas, may be in use in this capacity. I think at this point, I will remain with the idea that this may well be a well made, and refurbished blade mounted in neoclassic hilt for Masonic use.

All best regards,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fearn

Gentlemen,

I really have to question whether it was functional. If you go back and look at the first picture posted, several things become apparent.

1. It's currently blunt

2. More importantly, the tip, because of the undulations, is not in line with the hilt or blade.

3. It's narrow,

4. It undulates widely,

5. It's thickest at the base, and thins towards the tip.

Now, basically a sword can chop, slice, or stab.

Can this one chop? Very badly. it's narrow, and it becomes smaller towards the tip. A good chopper would be wide and get wider towards the tip.

Can this one slice? A bit, but those waves are so big they'd probably decrease blade contact with the target (unlike, say, a saw). A good cutter would have a shape that brought a lot of edge into contact with the target.

Can it stab? Not well, because the tip's blunt, and even if the tip was sharp, it's not in a great line with the rest of the blade, Also, if you did stab someone, you'd have to push all those undulations (backed by air, not steel) into the wound. And pull them back out again.

Also, it's 51.5 inches in length, with a 41 inch blade, and it appears to be designed for single-handed use.

No, I can't agree that this was designed as a functional weapon. It's for display. Granted, it is sharp, but I'd hate to go into any fight with this thing.

F

Crossed posts Fearn! Just saw this outstanding summation concerning this blade, which seems to remain the key point of contention at this point. It does seem interesting that Spanish rapiers did seem to often be at 41" in length, again from many examples I have seen referenced. If I recall correctly rapiers of this length were at some time outlawed at this or any exceeding length, but cant recall details offhand. The note on its being blunt and unsharpened again goes to the visual rather than functional intent. The observation on the waved surface likely deflecting the cut seems logical in application, as the point of contact would in most cases be uneven. Again, it seems I've seen notes on this somewhere.

Good observations!

All the best,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

I must clear one point. I was not talking about this specific sword. My intention is to question the general statement that the flammard swords existing on the whole wrold, were intended just like ceremonial, ritualistic or religious symbols. I don´t belive respectable swordsmiths from Spain would make this kind of blades in their time, and stamped them, as such kind of symbols, risking to die burnt on the stake or suffering very severe punishments. Our actual knowledge about the uses of flammard or serrated blades is very poor. Many people has questioned even how such indopersian hilts, with big discs on the pommels, could had been used, as those discs tend to hurt the wrist. Anybody who have a tulwar with this kind hilt knows this, just swinging it on the air.

Our actual knowledge about the old martial arts is also very limited, except for the treatises found about some european swordfighting techniques. The actual martial artists have not experience in real combat fighting with many old swords. Once, an iranian expert told me that the tulwar was handled with the wrist locked to the forearm, and this technique could explain a safe use of the pommel disc. It could be true, or not, but it remains the fact that the sword was actually used with some special technique. This is specially true with the not so known martial arts form the orient. The practitioners of swrodplay with the use of the historic rapier, knows that may modern sword techniques used on the sportive martial arts, could be not used with the real old swords, because of the weight they have.

I don´t believe, also, that those flammard swords were a very functional design. As many other ephimeral designs historically used in the whole world. They correspond to a periods, beliefs, aesthetics and fashions that require a more deep field investigation.

The absence of an actual edge in a sword, does not make proof it was not intended to fight, as many weapons, including some rapiers, were intended to be used only to parry and stab, and never to chop, slice or cut. All depends od their intended use. An ondulated blade seem very efective to parry, but dissconcerting in the act of stabbing if not familiar with this kind of blade. Not a problem it can´t be solved by training. A slender blade thickest and widest at the base and narrowing towars the pont, is classical on the rapiers. In other words, I have no doubts that certain ceremonial or ritualistic uses required an ondulated sword, but this fact does not authorizes the general statement that this design was intended only to this purpose in every culture, IMHO. A flashy, impresive and not very practical design, I agree. I am sure we can find many other examples of fighting weapons with this characteristics.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Battara]

One more thought, after better contact with Indonesia and the Philippines, the wavy blade became more popular, even finding its way into modern Wicca through Gardiner (who studied in Indonesia).

[fearn]

Hi Battara,

I think you're mostly right, although Gardiner was in Malaysia as a British colonial bureaucrat, not Indonesia, as Indonesia was a dutch colony, and Gardiner was British. Although I'm not Wiccan, I'm pretty sure this isn't a pagan blade. Something about all those crosses on the guard makes me think otherwise.

Hi Gonzalo,

I more-or-less agree with you, although I don't think there's anything overtly unchristian about this particular sword.

My critique was of this weapon in particular, not of wavy edges in general. To my eye, this sword has a bunch of problems as a weapon, and most of them stem from the width of the undulations. The problem with the depth of the waves is that they go all the way to the centerline (the line between hilt and tip), and that will make the blade try to behave like a spring in two dimensions when it stabs anything: it will bend across the flat (as all blades do), and it will try to collapse like a spring, because of those undulations. Whether the blade could survive such treatment is hard to tell.

While I'm not an expert martial artist, I believe that truly functional undulations are much shallower.

As for parrying? it's long and slow. If I was going to parry with it, I'd want another blade in my off hand to fight with, and in that case, this complex, expensive blade would be little better than a piece of firewood.

Cutting? The blade is sharp, so it could cut. However, it wouldn't take off someone's head, for instance, although it might cut a throat. It's just not a great design.

There's one other problem with those undulations: how do you sheathe this blade? The sheath would have to be 3-5" inches wide, and you'd have to spend a lot of time keeping the blade clean of rust, as the sheath couldn't possibly be made water-tight.

F

[Gonzalo G]

I agree, Faearn. Masons are not really unchristian, but christian, if this is a masonic blade. But on the catolic world, they were prosecuted by the church over some period of time, as they did not accept the authority of the church in many matters, and that was a capital offense. I also agree about your judgement on this particular sword., though I think the wavy blades are not designed to cut. As for to sheat it, I find more difficult the sheating of a sousson pata or a very curved shamshir, but anyway they were used on sheats. Yes, a problematic design, above all. Does not look efficient. I would like to know much more about malayan and indonesian blades, but unfortunately, I have not books or items to study. I like the keris.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Jim McDougall]

More great observations! and I wanted to add more I have come up with today also. It seems a great deal of difficulty in dealing with this type of sword blade comes from semantics. In earlier literature the term 'flamberge' was used in describing 'flamboyant' swords in chivalry, and this later became interpolated with flammard, which described the wavy edged blades we have been discussing. Apparantly a sword which is straight bladed, or with median ridge which does not undulate along with the wavy edges, is a 'flame blade' or flammard. In Egerton Castle ("Schools and Masters of Fence", 1885) plate III, #8 shows a German rapier of early 17th century with flammard blade, straight of course, but with wavy edges.
In these blades, the blade itself does not 'undulate', and these would seem to me to be quite functional. As Fearn has noted, these wide undulations on this example would seem likely to severely compromise this blade in either cut or thrust.


Returning once again to my Masonic case, in looking through "The Smallsword in England" (J.D.Aylward, 1945, pp.18,19) he notes that around the 1780's the 'flaming sword' seems to have been a popular trademark among sword cutlers, and there was considerable competition among cutlers to secure the right to this image. The reason I mention this is that this once again reinforces the strong prevalence of such symbolism that greatly coincided with the fluorishing of Masonry in these times. In a number of cases, there is in my opinion, evidence of other quite subtle Masonic symbolism in decorative and elemental devices on swords both military and private.
Once again to the 'pineapple'......Fearn mentioned what type fruit might have been presumed by the Freemasons to be on the Tree of Life .......I looked in "Herders Dictionary of Symbolism" (1978), and there was the pine cone!
It is noted that the pinecone crowned the Tree of Life in many Christian representations, and represented power and justice (p.191). What better pommel to associate with the 'Flaming Sword' which stood at the Gates of Paradise in guard of the Tree. The illustration shown in the book of the cone of course looked remarkably like our pommel!

These are just more bits of information to add to all the great perspective here, in trying to resolve the mystery of this interesting sword.

All best regards,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Battara

One more thought, after better contact with Indonesia and the Philippines, the wavy blade became more popular, even finding its way into modern Wicca through Gardiner (who studied in Indonesia).

Hi Jose,
It is my understanding that the wavy blade came to Indonesia from India, and I would presume from the nagan image. The original keris blades were straight in what I have read.
From my understanding of the keris, which is admittedly elementary, the waves (luk) in the blade have more to do with the esoterica of these weapons, and powers imbued in them than for combative purposes. I have not seen the Gardner book, which is I think pretty hard to find these days, but sounds pretty fascinating. I think these topics are most interesting from anthropological and folkloric sense, which often are impeded thier misunderstandings.

It seems there has often been a great deal of misunderstanding with many dramatic blade features, and in another instance, I believe the barbs on long arrows in Philippines (?) and some other regions are intended more in protection from evil sense than for more gruesome reasons.

All the best,
Jim

[fearn]

A pine-pommel? I love it! Thanks Jim!

F

[Gonzalo G]

Hi, Jim. Now you have introduced a very important morphological distinction, which I had not taken on account. Yes, there is a difference among a straight blade with ondulated edges, and an ondulated blade. I think maybe we (or I) were puting them in the same bag, as they are usually both called flammard in the equivalent word in spanish as far as I understand, which is "flamígera", from "flame". Maybe the rapiers referred by Dueñaz Beraiz were from this latter kind. When I spoke of fighting wepons on this style, I was thinking in this latter style of flammard blade, more discrete. Thank you for pointing to this detail, Jim.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Hi, Jim. Now you have introduced a very important morphological distinction, which I had not taken on account. Yes, there is a difference among a straight blade with ondulated edges, and an ondulated blade. I think maybe we (or I) were puting them in the same bag, as they are usually both called flammard in the equivalent word in spanish as far as I understand, which is "flamígera", from "flame". Maybe the rapiers referred by Dueñaz Beraiz were from this latter kind. When I spoke of fighting wepons on this style, I was thinking in this latter style of flammard blade, more discrete. Thank you for pointing to this detail, Jim.
Regards

Gonzalo

You bet Gonzalo!
It seems like semantics and transliteration sometimes really create havoc in understanding historical detail, many words change meaning entirely, or fall entirely out of use. These 'flame' blades which were basically straight, maintained the integrity of their intended purpose for cut or thrust, and the serration probably was in degree quite effective. Perhaps the reason they were not more common was due to the added difficulty in fashioning them?

Thank you for the Beraiz reference! The 'Gladius' publications are truly valuable resources, though I have never actually had access to them, and remain quite elusive as far as I know.

I understand well your reference to the keris. It is truly a weapon with fascinating and complex history and actually a profound element of the cultures it represents. There is tremendous knowledge in these forums on these weapons, which I too can only claim elementary knowledge, and honestly hope to learn more on them.

All the very best,
Jim

[katana]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Once again to the 'pineapple'......Fearn mentioned what type fruit might have been presumed by the Freemasons to be on the Tree of Life .......I looked in "Herders Dictionary of Symbolism" (1978), and there was the pine cone!
It is noted that the pinecone crowned the Tree of Life in many Christian representations, and represented power and justice (p.191). What better pommel to associate with the 'Flaming Sword' which stood at the Gates of Paradise in guard of the Tree. The illustration shown in the book of the cone of course looked remarkably like our pommel!
.

All best regards,
Jim

Hi Jim ,
the pine cone does seem very likely......I had 'dismissed' the idea previously (and came up with Raspberry ) as the leaves of the pine are 'needles' and totally different to those 'portrayed' on the pommel.

Following on from your excellent post I found further 'evidence' that there are other symbolic elements that seem to be displayed on the hilt. Firstly the use of a pine cone type fruit has been associated with the 'tree of life' since Ancient times (Sumerians, Babylonians etc.)

".... The Tree (of life) always has fruit or foliage. The fruit is usually rather large and plump and sometimes looking like a pine cone . The fruit as a pine cone was its most popular depiction even unto the Greeks and Romans....."

Also mentioned is the 'rosette' another symbolic motif, the guard seems to exhibit this...

".....Then we have the rosette. It too is a symbol connected to the Tree of Life. It has eight spoke-like leaves just like the symbol for the sun god Shamash....."

The crosses do not exactly match the more common Maltese styled cross often associated with 'Freemasonry' ... but during the time that the hilt was manufactured ... perhaps it was.

It is also stated that a snake (or dragon, which is considered 'serpentine') resides near the tree of life......perhaps, there is a possibility that the blade symbolises this

http://firstlegend.info/3rivers/3rivervalley.html

As to the functionality of the blade ..... it would be nice to be able to handle the sword in question to ascertain its characteristics ....the blade edges are described as sharp ...which does suggest its for use rather than show. As to its strength... the serpentine blade would have less flex than suggested by Fearn, I'm thinking about the comparison between , say a 'flat' sheet of steel and a corregated sheet of the same material. Fearn is right , in that the tip is not in direct alignment with the centre of the hilt. It is also 'rounded'....However there is a possibility that the tip was damaged and the 'end' of the blade reworked.
Functionality does not always equate to 'effectiveness' ....that is why blade designs 'come and go'. As Rapiers were generally civilian defensive weapons, less effective designs may have 'survived' momentarily due to the 'wow' factor. I would imagine that many 'gentlemen' that carried a Rapier ...never actually used them ....perhaps the 'threat' was more than enough to discourage 'trouble' from the 'lower' (poorly armed) classes whilst walking the streets.

This has been a very interesting thread mainly due to the excellent information from Jim, good work . Also Fearn, thanks for being a 'sparring partner', when I try to play the Devil's Advocate it trully helps to have a 'counter argument'...which, for me, seems to open new 'avenues of discussion'


Kind Regards David

[fearn]

Hi David,

Yes, I enjoy a good argument too. Thanks for pointing out the flowers and foliage on the guard. I'd missed that. Those rosettes are eight-petaled, and that's a really unusual number for real flowers (read, it happens very rarely, and these are NOT representatives of a real species). Because of that, I agree that those little rosettes are probably symbols.

Another thing is to remember is that northern Europeans didn't get to see palm trees unless they traveled, so on Palm Sunday, they often used conifer branches in place of palm branches. Because of this, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some confusion between pines and palms. Also, we have the Cedar of Lebanon, another Mid-eastern species (the wood was used to build the Ark of the Covenant), and we could be seeing representations of cedar as well as pine. One thing I've noticed is that many mystical and religious types tend not to be up on their botany (ditto with swordsmiths), and so we can't count on plants being identified and portrayed properly in their art.

As for the handling characteristics, I agree that it would be nice to handle it, and until then, we can argue about its characteristics. One thing to remember, though, is that this blade is going to be heavier than a straight blade of the same point-hilt length, because those undulations add some extra mass. If it faced a straight blade of the same length, all other things being equal, it would be a little slower.

One thing that I brought up before, that got ignored, was how odd the guard is. It's symmetrical (compare with Bilbao rapier under discussion). Since this is almost certainly a commissioned piece, I would expect to see a guard that is right-handed or left-handed, to suit the user. Moreover, the wear on the grip (see Katana's previous post) looks right-handed to me, as it's right where a right index finger would rub.

There are a couple of reasons why the guard could be symmetrical. One is that the symmetry is important to its symbolic value. That's possible. Another is that it was built to be used by more than one person, as in an armoury sword (see the post by Paul MacDonald talking about baskethilts). However, I don't think this is an armoury sword.

However, it could have belonged to a lodge or similar institution, as a ritual sword. That could explain the symmetric guard.

On with the debate!

Best,

F

[Jim McDougall]

David, thank you very much for the kind words, and for the followup with more great detail......excellent information on the ancient symbolism, as well as the rosettes, which I seem to have missed entirely !
Fearn, thank you also for your additions of yet more detail, and well placed comments concerning the botanical errata that seems to be quite notable in representations in weapon motif. Good points on the symmetry here as well, and another thing I overlooked, partly because I was focused on the symbolism of this sword and had leaned away from it being intended for actual combat.
The interaction between you and David has been outstanding, and it is great to see opposing ideas presented with supported perspective and sound reasoning, and completely constructive in evaluating various aspects being considered here. Without the comments and observations all of you guys bring up, the discussion would veer way off course, so its all a team effort!!

It truly is a great debate, and I always look forward to discovering more!

All the best,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

Finally, I have one image of the referenced spanish flammard rapier-like swords. It has a straight blade with curved edges, and it was meant as a combat weapon. Please see this example:

http://www.flg.es/ficha.asp?ID=7262

I just culdn´t find it before, as it was saved on my PC without reference to the form of the blade, and the name-tag on the catalog also does not specify this point.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Finally, I have one image of the referenced spanish flammard rapier-like swords. It has a straight blade with curved edges, and it was meant as a combat weapon. Please see this example:

http://www.flg.es/ficha.asp?ID=7262

I just culdn´t find it before, as it was saved on my PC without reference to the form of the blade, and the name-tag on the catalog also does not specify this point.
Regards

Gonzalo

Thank you Gonzalo for keeping after that!! Excellent example of wavy edges, rather than wavy blade...and as you have previously noted, the simple omission describing these in discussion or narration can really lead to difficulties in considering dynamics.
All the best,
Jim