Nice real old one from Bali - Page 2

A. G. Maisey · 22nd October 2007, 09:21 AM

Here are a few more Bali handles.

Not in quite the same class as some of the others that have been presented, but nice handles, just the same.

http://kerisattosanaji.com/Baligoldhandle.html

Marcokeris · 22nd October 2007, 03:01 PM

David : Noe's hilt is wonderfull: a superb work.
Alan: uli emas, hijau .. are different kinds of coral (i hope that the dictions are proper). Now from the other picture the quality of hit's work seems better.

A. G. Maisey · 22nd October 2007, 10:08 PM

Thanks for your explanation Marco. "uli" is Balinese? So, this would be the same as "akar", or "root" ? So you are talking about the the talismanic coral roots that are used in Bali ? Is this correct?

Yes, I changed the original photos I had up. The original photos were scans of ten year old negatives, the new photos were done last weekend. There is no doubt that the work in this gold handle is superb. I have a collection of something over 1000 keris hilts, and I have seen and handled many more than this, and in my opinion this gold handle is the best I have ever personally handled, or seen. I am not including hilts of which I have seen photographs, as a photo can often fail to tell the whole story. Moreover, as I have already said, three other people who are regarded as authorities in Asian art, two of whom have an international reputation, have appraised this hilt as one of the finest in existence.If the quality is not obvious to you, then we must hold my inadequate skills with the camera at fault.

drdavid · 22nd October 2007, 11:37 PM

Hi Alan
can you give an explanation of the symbolism of the small face on the back of the head on this gold Bali handle. It looks a little like a monkey's features.
regards
DrD

A. G. Maisey · 23rd October 2007, 12:31 AM

I could, but I would prefer not to.

I do not know sufficient about the Balinese culture to be able to give a supportable interpretation of this feature in terms that would be comprehensible to us, and acceptable to the relevant culture at the time when this handle was made.

David, when we wish to involve ourselves in the interpretation of symbols that belong to a time and a culture other than our own, we are treading on very, very dangerous ground. To truly understand these things we need to be able to see them and understand them from the perspective of a Balinese royal personage of more than 100 years ago.To do other than this is simply to place a name-- which may or may not be correct in the relevant context --- on something which we have no hope of understanding. At best, this can cause us to appear naive.

David · 23rd October 2007, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdavid

Hi Alan
can you give an explanation of the symbolism of the small face on the back of the head on this gold Bali handle. It looks a little like a monkey's features.
regards
DrD

Well, i think Alan's words are wise and i wouldn't dare to make an interpretation, but isn't the character Garuda?
Here's a nice ivory hilt.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd October 2007, 04:23 AM

Where are you sourcing these pretty pics from, David?

David · 23rd October 2007, 06:26 PM

These were all part of a collection that was up for auction a while back.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd October 2007, 10:27 PM

Thanks.

Battara · 24th October 2007, 12:47 AM

David, if that is a weapon in his hand, I am thinking this is Ravana, the demon king in the Ramayana.

David · 24th October 2007, 04:55 AM

Very well may be Jose. those are the best pics i have.
Here is another one from the same collection.

Ah, if i were a rich man....

David · 24th October 2007, 05:04 AM

Of course, if one weren't feeling quite so wealthy they might go for something in "simple" silver.

Battara · 25th October 2007, 12:33 AM

Ok here is something I would llike to know - the relationship of the different materials and cast (gold - royal, ivory - ?, silver - ?).

24th October 2007, 04:55 AM	#41
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,115	Very well may be Jose. those are the best pics i have. Here is another one from the same collection. Ah, if i were a rich man.... Attached Images

24th October 2007, 05:04 AM	#42
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,115	Of course, if one weren't feeling quite so wealthy they might go for something in "simple" silver. Attached Images

22nd October 2007, 09:21 AM	#31
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,886	Here are a few more Bali handles. Not in quite the same class as some of the others that have been presented, but nice handles, just the same. http://kerisattosanaji.com/Baligoldhandle.html

22nd October 2007, 03:01 PM	#32
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	David : Noe's hilt is wonderfull: a superb work. Alan: uli emas, hijau .. are different kinds of coral (i hope that the dictions are proper). Now from the other picture the quality of hit's work seems better.

22nd October 2007, 10:08 PM	#33
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,886	Thanks for your explanation Marco. "uli" is Balinese? So, this would be the same as "akar", or "root" ? So you are talking about the the talismanic coral roots that are used in Bali ? Is this correct? Yes, I changed the original photos I had up. The original photos were scans of ten year old negatives, the new photos were done last weekend. There is no doubt that the work in this gold handle is superb. I have a collection of something over 1000 keris hilts, and I have seen and handled many more than this, and in my opinion this gold handle is the best I have ever personally handled, or seen. I am not including hilts of which I have seen photographs, as a photo can often fail to tell the whole story. Moreover, as I have already said, three other people who are regarded as authorities in Asian art, two of whom have an international reputation, have appraised this hilt as one of the finest in existence.If the quality is not obvious to you, then we must hold my inadequate skills with the camera at fault.

22nd October 2007, 11:37 PM	#34
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Hi Alan can you give an explanation of the symbolism of the small face on the back of the head on this gold Bali handle. It looks a little like a monkey's features. regards DrD

23rd October 2007, 12:31 AM	#35
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,886	I could, but I would prefer not to. I do not know sufficient about the Balinese culture to be able to give a supportable interpretation of this feature in terms that would be comprehensible to us, and acceptable to the relevant culture at the time when this handle was made. David, when we wish to involve ourselves in the interpretation of symbols that belong to a time and a culture other than our own, we are treading on very, very dangerous ground. To truly understand these things we need to be able to see them and understand them from the perspective of a Balinese royal personage of more than 100 years ago.To do other than this is simply to place a name-- which may or may not be correct in the relevant context --- on something which we have no hope of understanding. At best, this can cause us to appear naive.

23rd October 2007, 04:23 AM	#37
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,886	Where are you sourcing these pretty pics from, David?

23rd October 2007, 06:26 PM	#38
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,115	These were all part of a collection that was up for auction a while back.

23rd October 2007, 10:27 PM	#39
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,886	Thanks.

24th October 2007, 12:47 AM	#40
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	David, if that is a weapon in his hand, I am thinking this is Ravana, the demon king in the Ramayana.

25th October 2007, 12:33 AM	#43
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Ok here is something I would llike to know - the relationship of the different materials and cast (gold - royal, ivory - ?, silver - ?).