Elephant Sword - Page 2

Jim McDougall · 2nd March 2008, 10:25 PM

These are really excellent references added as to the elephants really were armed with swords on tusks or trunk, and present perspective to the feasibility.
I found the one I was looking for in "The Elephant Tusk Swords" by Thom Richardson ("Royal Armouries Yearbook" Vol.4 1999, pp.133-34).
He notes that most of the references to the use of tusk swords on war elephants belong to 15tn or 16th c. though there are earlier reports. A Castilian emissary notes swords fastened to the tusks "...like the grooved swords we use in war". A. Nikitin in "A Voyage to India in 1469-74" described the Bahmani armies of Bidar, "...large scythes are attached to the tusks and trunks of the elephants".
By 1535-7 Ferdinand Nunez in his "Chronicle" notes "...and on thier tusks they have knives fastened, with which they do much harm".

Richardson notes that although there are numerous records of them in the literature, there seem to be no contemporary illustrations of them. He suggests further that such use probably ceased by the late 16th c.

I would think that these swords on tusks may have been used as suggested in the literature, with limited use with the advent of technology and improved tactics by the 17th c. Probably with the Indian observance of tradition, the ceremonial dressing of elephants probably did include these tusk swords.
Pant describes these socket type items with blades fastened as 'tusk protectors' (dama kavacha) but it is apparantly unclear whether the term applies to the blunt end examples or the bladed ones used by Mughals.
(Pant. "Horse and Elephant Armour" p.113, 1997).

I am inclined to doubt the use of a blade attached to the trunk, as it would seem that despite the ability to properly wield one, the likely indiscriminate use of it would be too endangering to virtually anyone around it, friend or foe. I agree with Fearn on the item he describes, it is more likely a colloquial association describing the sword.

all best regards,
Jim

fernando · 2nd March 2008, 11:35 PM

Also the various Portuguese chronists and travellers from the discoveries period, Castanheda, Barbosa, Manrique, Costa, cited the war elephants in their works. The famous jewish phisician Garcia de Horta wrote that war elephants carried hooks and bisarms, and even lately half cradles ( small breechloading cannons ) and gunpowder pans, and were armoured, specially in their head fronts and chest; had bells pending on their flanks and were blanketed like horses. Also they were equiped with encased arms in their tusks, with the shape of plough irons. None of them mentions weapons on their trunks. Within my uncultured limitations, i can easily assimilate that war elephants were equiped for battle with thrusting devices in their tusks, but i can't see them going to special training to be able to do actual swording with their trunks. A sword is a specific weapon, requiring fencing notions. But what do you know?
The watercolour i post here belongs to a codice that was painted by a Portuguese anonimous in the XVI century ... one of or maybe the earliest in loco work ever available from the period. The elephant is not "personnaly" armed, but the picture is worth to see ... the hanging bells are there, though
Fernando

josh stout · 3rd March 2008, 06:19 PM

I think armoured tusks were not uncommon, but a weapon in the trunk goes against elephant nature. They fight other elephants with their tusks, but tend to keep their trunks out of the way. I have seen video of a circus master getting repeatedly whacked by an elephant, so they can use the trunk to hit soft and juicy things or pulling up treas and such, but they would be much more likely to use tusks against dangerous looking sharp spiky creatures.

Elephants were notorious for being dangerous for both sides in a battle. They tended to be too smart to get into obviously dangerous situations and would end up running over their own forces. Even well trained horses will balk given enough impetus. If you really need an animal to pull a wagon load of gunpowder into a burning castle, use oxen.

A tangent on the elephant smarts tangent, I was once successfully extorted by an elephant. I offered it a peanut from a bag, and it took the hand holding the peanut in its trunk, rolled the arm until it was completely locked in a submission hold, and then gently placed my hand between two of its molars. I gave it the rest of the bag, and it let go of my arm having made its point. Definitely not an animal I would like to see with PTSD

Anyway, sorry to hear about the sword, and I would love to hear more on the topic of elephants with weapons.
Josh

2nd March 2008, 11:35 PM	#32
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Also the various Portuguese chronists and travellers from the discoveries period, Castanheda, Barbosa, Manrique, Costa, cited the war elephants in their works. The famous jewish phisician Garcia de Horta wrote that war elephants carried hooks and bisarms, and even lately half cradles ( small breechloading cannons ) and gunpowder pans, and were armoured, specially in their head fronts and chest; had bells pending on their flanks and were blanketed like horses. Also they were equiped with encased arms in their tusks, with the shape of plough irons. None of them mentions weapons on their trunks. Within my uncultured limitations, i can easily assimilate that war elephants were equiped for battle with thrusting devices in their tusks, but i can't see them going to special training to be able to do actual swording with their trunks. A sword is a specific weapon, requiring fencing notions. But what do you know? The watercolour i post here belongs to a codice that was painted by a Portuguese anonimous in the XVI century ... one of or maybe the earliest in loco work ever available from the period. The elephant is not "personnaly" armed, but the picture is worth to see ... the hanging bells are there, though Fernando Attached Images

2nd March 2008, 10:25 PM	#31
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	These are really excellent references added as to the elephants really were armed with swords on tusks or trunk, and present perspective to the feasibility. I found the one I was looking for in "The Elephant Tusk Swords" by Thom Richardson ("Royal Armouries Yearbook" Vol.4 1999, pp.133-34). He notes that most of the references to the use of tusk swords on war elephants belong to 15tn or 16th c. though there are earlier reports. A Castilian emissary notes swords fastened to the tusks "...like the grooved swords we use in war". A. Nikitin in "A Voyage to India in 1469-74" described the Bahmani armies of Bidar, "...large scythes are attached to the tusks and trunks of the elephants". By 1535-7 Ferdinand Nunez in his "Chronicle" notes "...and on thier tusks they have knives fastened, with which they do much harm". Richardson notes that although there are numerous records of them in the literature, there seem to be no contemporary illustrations of them. He suggests further that such use probably ceased by the late 16th c. I would think that these swords on tusks may have been used as suggested in the literature, with limited use with the advent of technology and improved tactics by the 17th c. Probably with the Indian observance of tradition, the ceremonial dressing of elephants probably did include these tusk swords. Pant describes these socket type items with blades fastened as 'tusk protectors' (dama kavacha) but it is apparantly unclear whether the term applies to the blunt end examples or the bladed ones used by Mughals. (Pant. "Horse and Elephant Armour" p.113, 1997). I am inclined to doubt the use of a blade attached to the trunk, as it would seem that despite the ability to properly wield one, the likely indiscriminate use of it would be too endangering to virtually anyone around it, friend or foe. I agree with Fearn on the item he describes, it is more likely a colloquial association describing the sword. all best regards, Jim

3rd March 2008, 06:19 PM	#33
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I think armoured tusks were not uncommon, but a weapon in the trunk goes against elephant nature. They fight other elephants with their tusks, but tend to keep their trunks out of the way. I have seen video of a circus master getting repeatedly whacked by an elephant, so they can use the trunk to hit soft and juicy things or pulling up treas and such, but they would be much more likely to use tusks against dangerous looking sharp spiky creatures. Elephants were notorious for being dangerous for both sides in a battle. They tended to be too smart to get into obviously dangerous situations and would end up running over their own forces. Even well trained horses will balk given enough impetus. If you really need an animal to pull a wagon load of gunpowder into a burning castle, use oxen. A tangent on the elephant smarts tangent, I was once successfully extorted by an elephant. I offered it a peanut from a bag, and it took the hand holding the peanut in its trunk, rolled the arm until it was completely locked in a submission hold, and then gently placed my hand between two of its molars. I gave it the rest of the bag, and it let go of my arm having made its point. Definitely not an animal I would like to see with PTSD Anyway, sorry to hear about the sword, and I would love to hear more on the topic of elephants with weapons. Josh