ETHIOPIAN, ANYONE?

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by roanoa

Jeff: help!!

Hi Ron,

I thought the Bat signal looked like a thermometer tonight .

the thermometer was used by the Solingen firm of F.W. Holler 1866-1975.

Hope this helps
Jeff.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by roanoa

The first word on the blade is MENELIK (Emperor of Ethiopia before Haile Selassie) and you have it upside down. Ethiopian sentences (in this case it's just a word) end with 4 dots as in the second inscription which is SAINT GEORGE (protector of Ethiopia). The writing on the ricasso is a bit of a puzzle because it says NIKOLA SUPPLIER TO THE EMPEROR and I have no idea of who this NIKOLA was. Maybe one of the many Armenian traders that supplied European goods to Ethiopia. The GG has generated a flurry of interpretations. Someone has suggested GRENAL of GLASGOW (doubt it...) or GEBRUDER GRAH (doubt it...). Jeff Demetrick and I had a discussion about this and we agree that in all likelyhood is GESETZLICH GESCHUETZT (ofter referred to as GES GESH) which I believe means REGISTERD MARK. I actually documented a sword that under the Lion of Judah has the words GES GESH. Jeff also identified the thermometer, but I have to dig out that info. Jeff: help!!

I gues this would have to be Menelik the second?

Does this help date the sword to the period of the early 1900s? Or could it be later and just refer to Menelik?

Did these guades often have blades like this with the words and floral designs?

What can you tell me about the sword?

[roanoa]

It's of course Menelik II. Menelik I, according to tradition, was the son of the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon. He fled Israel (with the Ark of the Covenant), followed the Nile to Abyssinia and founded the Solomonic Dinasty.
Your sword, made by Hoeller in Germany - according to Jeff - is often referred to as "officer" model. I have some reservation about that definition. Most likely it was purchased by some Ras and given to his entourage. It was certainly carried by men of status. I have seen quite a few of these (relatively speaking) and found out the blades, identical in scritps and decorations, came in at least three different curvatures. I'll post the pictures of the 3 ASAP. In the meantime, here is a picture of an important leader wearing one and the "page" that I produced of one of mine.

[roanoa]

Hi Bill. Me again. I snapped one quick picture just to show you the different curvatures. As I said, the blades are otherwise identical. I wonder if there was a straight blade as well... The hilt was plated. Grip was wood with a black plastic covering held in place by two strands of twisted copper wire.

[Bill M]

WOW! Beautiful swords!

I hate to say that I once turned down an exquisite shotel. Ivory and gold. Still regret it, but I just did not have the money at that time! Gone now.

Well, the past does not count so much as now. What do you think of this shield? I bought it some time ago and forgot what country it came from, but it looks so much like Nagawarriors' shield that I thought I'd dig it up and post it.

[roanoa]

Bill, I have made a couple of bad mistakes myself... But the shotel ivory/gold sounds like a biggie. Any ideas of where it ended up? Any pictures? Now, the shield: 100% Abyssinian. Great shape. Love it.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by roanoa

Bill, I have made a couple of bad mistakes myself... But the shotel ivory/gold sounds like a biggie. Any ideas of where it ended up? Any pictures? Now, the shield: 100% Abyssinian. Great shape. Love it.

Don't know where the shotel ended up but it is gone. $1200 I think was the asking price.

Thanks for the info on the shield.

I also really like Ethiopian art, prayer scrolls and jewelry. It has a vitality that most Christian art lost in the Byzantine.

Will post a modern piece about Menelik I. Kind of fun, about Queen of Sheba and Soloman. I think that it is on goat skin.

I realize that this is a weapons forum, but I think it is important to know about the culture, art, religion, political structure, history. All these give a depth of underestanding that really enriches the weapon collecting.

[derek]

Been out of town all week, so here's my belated "count me in".

The shotel on top is one of my personal favorites, the 4th from the top is a Wilkinson:



Roano should remember this one....



That shotel closer up:

[ariel]

Here are mine.
The first one is straight, with absolutely superb blade: rings like a bell! It has Roanoa's beloved "GG" mark and the Lion of Judah on the other side.
The curved one has a Russian blade, "Zlatoust August 1853 year"
Both have rhino (I mean it!) handles. The German one has original scabbard, the Russian one's scabbard is an old replacement.

[Bill M]

Apologies for the reflection haze in the pictures. The original panel is on goat skin. I do believe it is modern, but interesting.

As I understand it the story depicted is:

When the Queen of Sheba ruled Ethiopia, a beautiful bird from the land of Israel flew over the Queen's palace. When the bird returned to Israel, he reported to King Solmon just what he had seen--a land ruled by a magnificent Queen, filled with endless mountains and unexplored wilderness. King Solomon ordered that the bird return to Ethiopia with an invitation for the Queen to visit the Land of Israel. When the Queen arrived, she showered the King with plentiful silver and gold, amber, spices, incense, and perfumes. King Solomon fell in love with the Queen of Sheba and that night, the two made love. Before returning to Ethiopia, the King offered Sheba a ring and asked that if she were to bare him a son, that she send their son and the ring back to him. When their son, Menelik, was old enough to travel, he was escorted to his father's kingdom in Israel. After being educated in Israel, Menelik requested to return home to Ethiopia. Solomon ordered that the counselor's first born sons accompany Menelik on his travels. The sons secretly carried the Ark of the Covenant from the Temple of Solomon into Ethiopia. Menelik became the Ethiopian King and the Falasha Jews claim descent from the sons of King Solomon's counselors. As the legend continues....

First picture shows something mystical happening. I can't figure it out.

[Bill M]

Second picture shows Sheba setting out to go to Solomon

[Bill M]

Third picture Queen on Sheba welcomed by Solomon, The she settles down beside him,

[Bill M]

Fourth Picture Solomon makes an offer to Sheba, she accepts (see upper left of picture on right).

[Bill M]

Fifth Picture Solomon gives his ring to Sheba and tells her if she bear a son, send him to Solomon with that ring to recognize his son. Name the son Menelik.


I don't have the next panel, but I think this is neat!

[ariel]

Apparently, there is another story of a meeting between the two: Solomon ordered to make a mirror floor in his Royal Hall. Sheba, thinking it was a water pool, lifted her skirt and everybody saw she had hairy legs.
She was the first example of a liberated and proud feministic womyn!
Betty Friedan aside, Ethiopian women are beautiful and Old Solly had a very good taste

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by ariel

Here are mine.
The first one is straight, with absolutely superb blade: rings like a bell! It has Roanoa's beloved "GG" mark and the Lion of Judah on the other side.

Ariel,

My straight blade is identical to yours. Same marks. Lion of Judah on one side and GG on the other side. Same floral design in the double fullers. Everything! Must have been made by the same guy or at least same shop.

37" overall length, right?

Well, mine has a rhino grip -- no, cow -- no, it IS rhino -- wait - wait - cow -- a rhinocow . . . . . cowrhino -- more Ouzo, please. It is a cowino grip! Ah who cares?

Mine has a different grip but shaped like yours.

Posted in the other thread.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by ariel

Apparently, there is another story of a meeting between the two: Solomon ordered to make a mirror floor in his Royal Hall. Sheba, thinking it was a water pool, lifted her skirt and everybody saw she had hairy legs.
She was the first example of a liberated and proud feministic womyn!
Betty Friedan aside, Ethiopian women are beautiful and Old Solly had a very good taste

But wouldn't he see up her skirt? Like the guys in high school with the small mirrors on their shoes?

[roanoa]

Bill, I myself am into Ethiopian "stuff" big time. Have a colelction of crosses, jewels, paintings. The works. Of course, my prime interest is swords and shields... The straight bladed sword in question is a fairly common pattern (in my lingo it means I have seen more than a dozen). Of course they are identical as they were manufactured in quantity. Here is mine. Grip is, as you can PLAINLY see, COW... Not rhino (sob sob), just cow. I have another one in poor shape (cow again...). C'est la vie. The cow vs. rhino debate will rage on long after we are gone. Hurts me to envision that shotel with ivory grip. I have seen only one in Rome. And a gurade that was offered to me about 10 years ago from an Italian dealer. Too much money at the time. Reasonable to-day...

[derek]

These are excellent!

Here's another straight blade that managed to get a rehilt in Yemen.

[derek]

This is from a rehilted straight blade as well. Although the blade has lost its temper and bends easily, it is rare in that it has Haille Selassie, The empress, and Menelik II on it.

[roanoa]

Hi Derek. Great to hear from you. The first sword, though virtually identical, differs from the others as: 1) it has the crown; 2) it has an inscription; and 3) has the patented mark of S. TERZIAN's Lion of Judah.
The second one is quite nice. The faces are, as you said, those of Menelik, Empress Taitu, and ???? I really don't know. I think Haile' Selassie was too young at the time. But it is a good guess. MAYBE it's his father, Ras Tafari of Harar. Great sword, regardless. Here's mine.

[Tim Simmons]

Another Solomon and Sheba painting to go with Bills, this is behind glass and the flash is on.

I do believe there has been a considerable clamp down on the export of these late 19th early 20th century paintings.

[Lew]

Bill

As per your request.

Lew

[roanoa]

Nice Gile'. Yes, it's an AFAR/ISSA knife from the Danakil area. Judging from the style of the grip and the grooves on the blade, I would say it comes from an area close to or overlapping with Ethiopian border. Just a guess. The central portion of the grip looks like..... RHINO. Would have to take a very close look.

[Lew]

The central portion of the grip looks like..... RHINO. Would have to take a very close look.[/QUOTE]

Picture added up top.

[spiral]

Is it possible to get a photo of the end grain Louie? {on the pommel perhaps.?}

Even some cow & buffalo horn can be fiberous, the only 100% certen identification I know is a close up of the end grain. The fibre in matrix appearance is ummistakable.



Whether translucent ,opaque, black,brown,green or orangey yellow the texture like orange skin remains the same.

Spiral

[Lew]

Spiral

The dagger is capped off with cow horn at either end so there is no way to tell.

[Tim Simmons]

My rhino horn does not have this orange peel surface. I shall try to show this latter. I know some African cattle can have horns 32" long but they are hollow.

[Lew]

Whether translucent ,opaque, black,brown,green or orangey yellow the texture like orange skin remains the same.

Spiral[/QUOTE]

Spiral

The orange peel is from a cross cut against the grain of the horn. So if you cut along the grain lengthwise yo will not see the orange peel effect.

Lew

[spiral]

Thanks Louie, I am not confident enough to offer opionion on its side grain.

But yes the orange peel is just visible on the end grain. {crosscut like firewood logs.}

I can only say Tim what I have learnt from people who spends thousands of pounds on individual antique rhino horn carvings & who are not intrested in cow or buffalo horn , fakes of which riddle the market.

I am always happy to learn more though.

Spiral