Philippine weapons in Spanish museums

[Battara]

Once again some great pictures. Thank you for all your efforts and hard work. Love the Bagobo shield.

[VANDOO]

GREAT PICTURES WITH AN INTERESTING SELECTION OF WAR CLUBS. IT LOOKS TO BE 5 CLUBS FIJI/TONGAN, 2 SAMOA, 1 SOLOMON ISLANDS AND ONE SHORT CLUB FROM SOUTH AMERICA.
ITS NEAT TO SEE THE PHILIPPINE MORO KRISES WITH THE DAYAK DESIGNS ON THEM. THE THIRD PICTURE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE LAST GROUP IS OF A KRIS WITH A FIGURAL HANDLE. IS THERE ANY INFORMATION ON IT IN THE BOOK? I HAVE A KRIS WITH A SIMULAR FIGURAL HANDLE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO PIN DOWN AS TO WHERE IT ORIGINATED.

[migueldiaz]

Battara, thanks.

Vandoo, when I was looking at those clubs in the various museums I visited, I actually thought of you, that those clubs are your cup of tea On whether there's info on their books, unfortunately there's none.

[celtan]

Hola L.,

Did you happen to take pictures of the Spanish weapons in these museums, specially swords and daggers?

Saludos

Manuel

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by celtan

Did you happen to take pictures of the Spanish weapons in these museums, specially swords and daggers?

Hola, Manuel! Not much, as I there were a lot of items, and I focused on Phil. weapons.

Below are pics of some of those few ones I was able to take. Regards.

[Marc]

These are from the Museo Naval, if I'm not mistaken. Spanish regulation (or at least Navy-used) Navy weapons.
There's a catalogue of the bladed weapons of the Museo Naval, but it excludes all the ethnographic section. It's in Spanish, also.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Marc

These are from the Museo Naval, if I'm not mistaken. Spanish regulation (or at least Navy-used) Navy weapons.
There's a catalogue of the bladed weapons of the Museo Naval, but it excludes all the ethnographic section. It's in Spanish, also.

Marc, thanks. Yes they are from Museo Naval.

On another matter, Vandoo was inquiring earlier whether war clubs were used in Philippines. At the storage of Victor Balaguer museum near Barcelona, I saw a club which was reportedly collected in the country in the 19th century.

But it still needs to be verified whether what's written on the club's handle really pertains to the name of the club and a place in Philippines.

[migueldiaz]

Another interesting piece I saw at the storage of Victor Balaguer museum is a barung from a juramentado.

Maybe our friends from Spain or South America can provide us with the translation of the text (and from there we can all speculate why the juramentados attacked the Chinese which were long-time friends of the Moros, as they have been co-existing for so long).

[Marc]

Let's give it a try. It reads (I think):

“Perteneció a uno de los tres juramentados que entraron en la casa del S(?)ultán Harun (16 Agosto 1888*). Mataron a un moro y a tres chinos e hirieron a siete de éstos”

Which would roughly translate as:

“It belonged to one of the three juramentados who broke in the house of S(?)ultan Harun (16th of August 1888*). They killed a Moro and three Chinese, and wounded seven more of the latter”

I hope this helps.


*It could also be 1898/1889/1899, but I think the year given, 1888, is the most probable option, followed closely by 1898.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Marc

Let's give it a try. It reads (I think):

“Perteneció a uno de los tres juramentados que entraron en la casa del S(?)ultán Harun (16 Agosto 1888*). Mataron a un moro y a tres chinos e hirieron a siete de éstos”

Which would roughly translate as:

“It belonged to one of the three juramentados who broke in the house of S(?)ultan Harun (16th of August 1888*). They killed a Moro and three Chinese, and wounded seven more of the latter”

I hope this helps.


*It could also be 1898/1889/1899, but I think the year given, 1888, is the most probable option, followed closely by 1898.

Great work Marc, thank you. History unfolds before our eyes. Lorenz, the depths you have gone to are greatly appreciated as is the willingness of the museum to help with learnings is also greatly appreciated.

Gav

[VANDOO]

THE CLUB APPEARS TO BE A PIECE OF RATTAN WHICH TIED ITS SELF IN A KNOT NATURALLY OR PERHAPS WAS DONE INTENTIONALLY AND THEN HARVESTED WHEN IT WAS THE PROPER SIZE. THE VINE CAN GROW RAPIDLY SO EITHER IS A POSSIBILITY. IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE TO INSERT A ROCK AND LET THE VINE GROW AROUND IT TO MAKE A CLUB. GOOD OLD EXAMPLE OF A PHILIPPINE CLUB AT LAST . IN MY EXPERIENCE RATTAN IS NOT VERY HEAVY OR HARD THOUGH SO I WOULD SUSPECT THERE WERE OTHER SORTS OF WAR CLUB MADE TOO.

[Reichsritter]

Originally Posted by Marc

Let's give it a try. It reads (I think):

“Perteneció a uno de los tres juramentados que entraron en la casa del S(?)ultán Harun (16 Agosto 1888*). Mataron a un moro y a tres chinos e hirieron a siete de éstos”

Which would roughly translate as:

“It belonged to one of the three juramentados who broke in the house of S(?)ultan Harun (16th of August 1888*). They killed a Moro and three Chinese, and wounded seven more of the latter”

I hope this helps.


*It could also be 1898/1889/1899, but I think the year given, 1888, is the most probable option, followed closely by 1898.

The date is correct, Sultan Harun Al Rashid was installed by the Spanish in 1886 and abdicate in favor of his cousin in 1893. He was exiled in Palawan until his death. He has a resident in Jolo from 1886-1893.

[celtan]

Pretties!

All from the mid-late 19th C. Own several of these.

Thanks L !

: )

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Hola, Manuel! Not much, as I there were a lot of items, and I focused on Phil. weapons.

Below are pics of some of those few ones I was able to take. Regards.

[migueldiaz]

Marc, muchas gracias!

Gav, glad I can contribute to the body of knowledge. But the real thanks should go to the subject museums because they are very generous and helpful.

Vandoo, thanks for those insights.

Reichsritter, your expertise in Moro genealogies among others is surely well appreciated.

Manuel, the pics below are from the Victor Balaguer museum. The weapons sit side by side with the cabinets containing Filipino weapons. Would they be Spanish?

Thanks again to all.

[laEspadaAncha]

Lorenz,

I have greatly enjoyed pouring over these photos - Thank you for taking the time to document your visits and to post all the photos you have...

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Lorenz,

I have greatly enjoyed pouring over these photos - Thank you for taking the time to document your visits and to post all the photos you have...

Thanks too. I enjoyed compiling the pics as well

Incidentally for everybody's info, here's a list of Filipino items I saw on display at Museo del Ejercito (the army museum), in Toledo:

A. ETHNOGRAPHIC SECTION

1. ME(CE) 43366: kampilan, Phil., Jolo archip., donated by Lt. Col. Fernando Molina in 1895

2. 43399: ligua [i.e., head axe], Phil., island of Luzon 1840; steel and wood, shaped & carved; donated by Lt. Gen. Narciso Claveria in 1850

3. 43020: cris, donated by Datto Dacula, ruler of Mindanao and Jolo, Phil., islands of Jolo and Mindanao, 1835; steel, wood, and vegetable fiber, shaped and carved and embossed; donated by Capt. Fernando Halcon in 1839

4. 120072; 120088; 120093; 120096; etc. - pics of Moros and other Filipinos

B. ESTADO LIBERAL SECTION

1. 43108: armadura [Moro armor]; armadura del Sultan Datto de Iligan

2. 43108.01: campilan; with disc and hair decoration at hilt

3. 43012.01[?]: campilan

4. 43219 - escudo [Kalinga-Igorot shield]

5. 43402 - ligua o hacha [head axe]

C. THE REFORMATION OF THE MONARCHY SECTION

1. 43075: machetes Filipinos [i.e., one left- and one right-handed chisel edged tenegres, with silver cladding on the 'monster' pommels] de Valeriano Weyner [a top general in the Phils. then];

2. 43397: machete golok; 1890-1895 [this is a typical Luzon tabak with a D-guard]

3. 43235: standard for the katipunan oath [green and red thick textile, with "KKK" and sun symbol, and with tassels on all edges]

4. 43393: mandil de Katipunan [with an image of a Spaniard's decapitated head being held by a hand, and an image of a dagger on the other hand]

D. [SECTION??]

1. 42280: campilan

2. 43219: escudo [Mindanao; this is the typical hour-glass shaped shield with sun symbol at the middle]

3. 43166: machete talibong [this is the typical Cebu variety]

4. 43266: machete barong

5. 43015: cris

6. 43292: machete panabas

E. ROMEO ORTIZ SECTION

1. 43461.01: armadura [Moro armor]

2. 43461.03: armadura, kurab-a-kulang

[Navigator]

What a wonderful thread!
Thanks for all your effort.

Are there any good collections in Manila that can be viewed by the public?

When I lived there I was privileged to visit the home of Ramon Tapales in White Plains. He had an outstanding collection.

But, at that time (1975-81), the museums in Manila and Baguio were a great disappointment.
All the good pieces were in private collections.

[migueldiaz]

Thanks for the comment. I'd say that even up to now, many excellent pieces continue to be in private collections.

I'm not familiar with Ramon Tapales. But I'll find out if he still keeps them. Thanks for the info.

[Robert]

All that I can add is that I hope that your travels were as exciting and informative as you hoped they would be and to thank you for all the effort that you have put into sharing all of these wonderful photos with us here at the forum.

Robert

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

All that I can add is that I hope that your travels were as exciting and informative as you hoped they would be and to thank you for all the effort that you have put into sharing all of these wonderful photos with us here at the forum.

hi robert. it was a very successful trip. i got more than what i bargained for and the staff from the spanish museums were all super helpful. thanks too for the note. regards.

[celtan]

Yes, they are!

: ) : ) : )

Pretties!

Gracias L

M

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Manuel, the pics below are from the Victor Balaguer museum. The weapons sit side by side with the cabinets containing Filipino weapons. Would they be Spanish?

Thanks again to all.

[Marc]

Well... Spanish, potentially Spanish or Spanish colonial, yes, I agree with Manuel.
The axe is probably the most contentious one, and the dagger is a figurative 19th c. exemplar, generically "European".
Can't blame the people at the museum for not being more specific, they are probably doing their best, and this is, after all, a specialized knowledge.

[migueldiaz]

about that rattan 'club'[?] above, i stumbled upon this pic of a similar 'device' found at the prambanan temple. still not sure if there is any relationship at all. but maybe it will provide clue ...

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

about that rattan 'club'[?] above, i stumbled upon this pic of a similar 'device' found at the prambanan temple. still not sure if there is any relationship at all. but maybe it will provide clue ...

An uncanny similarity, great detective work!