Bedouin Sword for Discussion

[kahnjar1]

What??? You obviously need to carefully re read what I said. No mention was made of Oman or Omani artifacts, but the comments were related to your assumption that most blades which are not mounted to the custom of a particular country, are no more than traps for the tourist.. My point is that until very recent times (your statement of 1970 is about right) tourism as we now know it did not exist in Arabia, so why would swords be "manufactured" to fool non existant tourists?

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams ...Not quite...I believe MK were the importers of such blades and the insignia denotes where the blade was made ie Luckhause and Gunther factory..Anyway the fact is that those blades are acceptable in Ethiopia.
Of the rest you are probably confused but my advice is to observe firstly the most updated information on Swords and Omani Artefacts which is from the Richardson and Dorr manual ... the classic chapter and verse on Omani antiquity. You are miles out on your guestimate about these Yemani swords as they are pure slight of hand straight down the line tourist items which is a pity as the majority of blades arent at all bad. You should therefor envisage what blades are acceptable in which countries on which hilts...Tourism in Oman was non existant in Oman before 1970. In Oman there is no way these Yemeni/Saudia knock ups are acceptable...eccept as I say as tourist items. I cant be fairer than that.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[spiral]

I have read{But sadley cant recall the source} that many Ethiopean swords were imported into Yemen 2 or 3 decades ago to turn the rhino horn sword hilts into Jambiya Handles.

Id guess this could be a factor.

Spiral

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

What??? You obviously need to carefully re read what I said. No mention was made of Oman or Omani artifacts, but the comments were related to your assumption that most blades which are not mounted to the custom of a particular country, are no more than traps for the tourist.. My point is that until very recent times (your statement of 1970 is about right) tourism as we now know it did not exist in Arabia, so why would swords be "manufactured" to fool non existant tourists?

Salaams ~ As far as the date specifics are concerned the Mutrah workshops recall sometime in the late 70s / early 80s as the timeframe for the appearance of the knocked up hilts which they describe as Saudia or Yemeni. My guess that they were done as a result of the exodus of expert Jewish craftsmen is withdrawn (it seemed to fit) but there was a gap of about 20 years since Mutrah didn't free up for tourism until after 1970. The attribution that they were swords initially stripped of rhino hilts then put on the general souk trade routes makes a lot of sense. Either way you have one of them.

You have a tourist sword with what appears to be a Sanaa or Saudia makeshift hilt. The blade isn't at all bad... they pour out of Yemen these days and the best estimate yet is that they were rehilted to take advantage of their original rhino hilts then the blades were tipped onto the souk market for Quwait, Riyad, Muscat and Sharjah etc for tourists. Once the Sanaa merchants realised that here was a perfectly easy way to make a few bucks I think they then went into overdrive and thus a secondary industry has unfolded, consequently, new blades are being presented with such hilts retaining the old ploy that these are "genuine bedouine" ~ its what the tourists want to hear...

My knowledge of this style comes from having seen hundreds in Mutrah, Sharjah and other Souks where you are literally tripping over the things and although the odd one has an interesting blade and stamp and they are also shoved onto Omani longhilts in Muscat the aim is to push these in front of visitors as tourist swords. That's what you have ~ A tourist sword.

Be happy with that or put another hilt on it... Rehilting isn't a sin...It has been done for hundreds of years both on and off the battlefield.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by spiral

I have read{But sadley cant recall the source} that many Ethiopean swords were imported into Yemen 2 or 3 decades ago to turn the rhino horn sword hilts into Jambiya Handles.

Id guess this could be a factor.

Spiral

Salaams Spiral ~Thank you. Your well timed note on the recycling of Rhino hilts from swords to Jambia falls perfectly into line with my estimated and slightly re aligned timescale and is the highly plausible reason for these blades with roughly reworked hilts hitting souks in the region in the late 70s early 80s and until now.
As a matter of interest there is another hilt that may be another back street add on from there(Riyad/Sanaa).. and that is the guardless long cuffed tubular grip with pommel at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...5&page=9&pp=30 #252 top picture refers.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams TVV...Your curved sword looks like a "Luckhouse and Gunter" imported German blade for the Ethiopian market configured typically with two full length florally decorated fullers and throat stamps etc. Could well have simply slipped onto the bulk blades market and re hilted for the souks; Saudia or Yemen.

With an Ethiopian hilt it would be superb...and correct.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahim,

I am assuming the blade made its way to Yemen because of its former hilt, which was likely rhino and was reused for a jambiya: there have been other examples on the forum of rehilted Ethiopian blades. However, there is one thing that I find somewhat puzzling: the blade was originally straight, and was reforged into a curved one. Logically, it could have been rehilted with its new hilt for the souvenir trade just as it was, so why go through the extra effort of hammering it into a curved one? I can imagine that labor is cheap, but it seems like a totally unnecessary step.

Anyway, for more ethipoian swords rehilted in Yemen, I found this thread. The pictures are now sadly gone, but the hilts were of a different kind, not of the ring hilt variety:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001511.html

The thread about the Riyadh bazaars, which I refernced earlier, suggested that the swords in the bazaar were not entirely intended for tourists, but that there was still a local demand for ceremonial and status purposes. While a lot of the production is undoubtedly meant for tourists, we should probably be careful before we quickly dismiss every sword with a modern (1950+) rehilt as a souvenir.

Regards,
Teodor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by TVV

Ibrahim,

I am assuming the blade made its way to Yemen because of its former hilt, which was likely rhino and was reused for a jambiya: there have been other examples on the forum of rehilted Ethiopian blades. However, there is one thing that I find somewhat puzzling: the blade was originally straight, and was reforged into a curved one. Logically, it could have been rehilted with its new hilt for the souvenir trade just as it was, so why go through the extra effort of hammering it into a curved one? I can imagine that labor is cheap, but it seems like a totally unnecessary step.

Anyway, for more ethipoian swords rehilted in Yemen, I found this thread. The pictures are now sadly gone, but the hilts were of a different kind, not of the ring hilt variety:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001511.html

The thread about the Riyadh bazaars, which I refernced earlier, suggested that the swords in the bazaar were not entirely intended for tourists, but that there was still a local demand for ceremonial and status purposes. While a lot of the production is undoubtedly meant for tourists, we should probably be careful before we quickly dismiss every sword with a modern (1950+) rehilt as a souvenir.

Regards,
Teodor

Salaams TVV, Yes that was interesting and I wonder what the story was on the curved (straight) Ethiopian/ German blade?

As to the question of how many swords there are in Riyad souk destined for tourists and how many for other users; I have no idea but I do know how the split goes in Muscat ... in terms of the imported blades at project #1 and the like~ all go to tourists.... except where a collector may step in and seeing a good blade may correctly rehilt. I can say that none of these out of area blades with crude hilts have been taken by Omani people to be some sort of weapon or as some kind of hoinorific tool or sword of dance...never!

In the case of short Nimcha blades being suited together on long Omani hilts these also hit the tourists shelves hard since they are quite appealing and almost squeeze through as genuine ... but hopefully this is now fully understood and at least forum are aware of the facts.

I mean anyone or should I say any collector who goes to the souk knowing that these are knocked up hilts aimed at the tourist market is advised to beware. Unless, of course, they were able to apply a correctly researched hilt.

My records go back to 1970 and are tied by the fact that in Muscat the main workshop/souk shop combination is owned by people with the same tribal name.

They say that with tourism no matter what, in the end, the client will buy what they like.... which is understandable when you consider that a 4,000 person cruise ship on a 2 day stop over parked 500 yards from the main Mutrah Souk entrance doesn't have time to educate its client base on all the pitfalls of the souk ...

They just pump them through 30 at a time in small hordes of frenzied bargain snatchers." 'Ere Mildred look at this" ... "It says 'ere Chinese sword made from Meteorite 10,000,000 year old" ... "Ooh is it signed" ... ? "Can I pay by cash"? ... "Do I have to bargain"...?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Spiral ~Thank you. Your well timed note on the recycling of Rhino hilts from swords to Jambia falls perfectly into line with my estimated and slightly re aligned timescale and is the highly plausible reason for these blades with roughly reworked hilts hitting souks in the region in the late 70s early 80s and until now.
As a matter of interest there is another hilt that may be another back street add on from there(Riyad/Sanaa).. and that is the guardless long cuffed tubular grip with pommel at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...5&page=9&pp=30 #252 top picture refers.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Note to forum ~ Damage Control... At the reference above please note the style and age of the scabbards which were purchased in about 1960 and probably have not aged much after that...They look like they were made at the same time as the hilts since they are fitted ... especially the last sword to that style of hilt. It is my suggestion based on this but triggered by a question at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16205 that these hilts are specific to that scabbard and sword and that this may be a separate species from the 19th C or before in Saudia Yemen.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi