Persian shamshir destroyed by USPS!!! - Page 2

Kubur · 17th July 2017, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

As it is now, the sword may be covered by the insurance. If it is not returned, the insurance is void. And, if the attempt of straightening fails, the buyer will be left with a broken sword and no money.

Yes of course, he has to send it back.
Plus the scabbard is damaged too...

A. G. Maisey · 17th July 2017, 02:05 PM

Yes, all true, my thoughts were directed at preservation, not remuneration.

Nathaniel · 17th July 2017, 04:33 PM

Estcrh,

Sorry to see the shipping tragedy. It reminds me of a similar USPS incident I had a couple years ago when I bought a pole arm from a respected forum member.

Note before:

Nathaniel · 17th July 2017, 04:38 PM

And imagine my shock and horror when the postal worker brought this out to the counter for me to sign for!!! I told the postal worker are you serious you want me to sign for this!?!? And they just shrugged and said my best bet was to fill out a damage claim form

Luckily this was fully insured! But still would have rather had a straight pole arm! Because the post paid the claim USPS keeps the pole arm!

estcrh · 17th July 2017, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

And image that sinking feeling when the postal worker brought this out to the counter for me to sign for!!!

Nathaniel, thanks for posting your pictures, I know exactly how you feel, even though I will get the money I paid returned it hurts to see this happen to any antique. The damage to your naginata looks just like what happened to my shamshir.

As I mentioned earlier, I just shipped a naginata much like yours in order to get some missing fittings replaced (habaki and tsuba), Tim Pepin the owner of Samuraisword.com just messaged me that it arrived safely but after what happened to the shamshir I kept thinking about how I could have done a better job of packing, I did not add any wood strips etc which would have greatly increased the chance of avoiding any damage to the blade or shaft, next time I will do that just as added protection.

Below is a picture that Artzi of Oriental Arms just sent me showing how he has reinforced for shipping the Chinese bow I just purchased. A great example that I intend to copy in the future.

estcrh · 17th July 2017, 05:22 PM

Once is one thing, but seeing this other very similar extreme damage example has really opened my eyes, I do not think I will simply rely on luck anymore when I ship any kind of weapon in the future.

Pieje · 17th July 2017, 11:53 PM

Several months ago I've sent a naginata from Europe to the USA using DHL.
I bought a 2m long plastic tube to be sure it arrived safely, off course it did.

Nathaniel · 18th July 2017, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieje

Several months ago I've sent a naginata from Europe to the USA using DHL.
I bought a 2m long plastic tube to be sure it arrived safely, off course it did.

I would agree with,Pieje. Thank you for bringing this up! These plastic tubes are a good option however you have to make sure that the plastic some flex and is not brittle. I have had a plastic tube crack apart before.

Rick · 18th July 2017, 01:33 AM

I showed you guys some of this stuff in post #9; it comes in varying diameters and is practically indestructible due to double wall construction. It is also lighter than the PVC tubing shown in other's posts.
The stuff can be a bit hard to find; try electrical contractors supply companies.

Philip · 19th July 2017, 06:56 AM

These tubes are really handy for just about all spears, and polearms like nagynatas that aren't too wide or curved. Others, like halberds, ronconi, and the like, are problematic due to the width. But you can still use the PVC tube to "armor" the shaft area, then run a couple pieces of wood to brace the sides of the head, extending down the shaft a ways, following the principle that Artzi used to reinforce the Chinese bow. You have to "build" a heavy cardboard or thin plywood casing to enclose the head where it comes out of the tube, but if everything is strong and tight, there should be no worries. I'm a great believer in Gorilla Tape to hold things together.

The trick is to protect sharp points and corners on weapons that don't come with scabbards. Corks, or wrapping with a strip of cardboard plus lots of tape and a prayer, are NOT foolproof. The sides and end of the casing need to be protected with wood covering any possible area that the tip can move and poke out.

estcrh · 19th July 2017, 11:29 PM

Another near disaster, this box contained a rather rare and valuable pistol and tabar. The box was split open and the end of the pistol barrel was sticking out, fortunately there did not seem to be any damage. The box was lined inside with additional cardboard and the items were bubble wrapped.

Philip · 20th July 2017, 12:28 AM

Just today UPS delivered 3 talwars sent by a customer for restoration. I set the box down on one end so I could sign the delivery receipt, and felt something heavy go "thunk" inside. Turns out that one tip protruded about an inch, enough to nick the hardwood floor of the vestibule

and it wasn't the first time it happened in transit because the point was already bent at an angle

Sender used a flimsy box, not enough padding to keep contents (banded together) from "sloshing" , and absolutely nothing to guard the exposed points on these swords!

I tend to discourage the use of UPS anyway, they tend to beat up parcels in general, almost as bad as the postal service, but neglected to advise sender in advance. One shipment, last year, was received with corner of box cut open and a couple of sword fittings purloined

rickystl · 21st July 2017, 09:18 PM

Here's another handy item to use in packing. Works well for many items.
Air Conditioning tubing insulation. It's very inexpensive and you can pick it up at any Home Depot or Lowe's. If I recall, it comes in about 4 different diameters. Saves a lot of extra packing wrap, etc. in many cases.
As an example: I wrap gun barrels with this insulation, tape the ends, and then slide it into a PVC tube. That way the gunsmith can simply return it to me in the same tube. Just change the shipping label.
I can see this assisting in packing some blades, crossguards, handles, etc.
Just an extra idea.

Rick

Neil · 22nd July 2017, 01:03 AM

So Sorry. For whatever it is worth you are clearly not alone. I have had numerous bent blades and broken tips over the years too.

I tape wooden shims over the ends of the bare blades I send and pack the surrounding areas firmly. Over seas packages go in strong tubes. I also write in fragile in large print on all sides of the packages.

Just my two cents.

estcrh · 23rd July 2017, 10:14 AM

I just received a full refund including shipping. The seller offered a partial refund if I decided to have the sword repaired but I decided not to risk it.

rickystl · 23rd July 2017, 06:16 PM

Well, glad you received a full refund in this sad situation. Probably the best outcome in this case. But I'm sure you will not forget about that shamsir for a while. Such a shame.

Rick

silberschatzimsee · 31st July 2017, 03:26 AM

That tip with the plastic pipe is very good. With smaller diameterpipes i trsnsport my fishing rods in the plane.

Helleri · 3rd August 2017, 10:09 PM

I like using cardboard edge/corner reinforcement for objects that are significantly heavier and hard than a box they would be shipped or moved in.

GePi · 12th August 2017, 08:44 AM

Umm, it seems the sword has come back to live.

Perhaps the listing got reposted automatically, but perhaps someone should contact the seller...

I too would like to add my condolences. Literally the same week I was delivered a shamshir (the package simply dumped in front of my apartment door without me being present) with the point literally sticking 2 inches outside of the package! Luckily no damage to the blade and no blood spurts in the surrounding area, so it seems I dodged a bullet there. Exceptionally bad packaging, from a reputable acution house no less...

estcrh · 12th August 2017, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GePi

Umm, it seems the sword has come back to live.

Yes and the pictures appear to be the exact same ones from the old listing, before the damage...very strange???

estcrh · 1st September 2017, 12:05 PM

Another near miss, this Egyptian rolling block bayonet was shipped to me from Europe, see how it arrived, fortunately is does not seem to have been damaged.

kronckew · 1st September 2017, 12:19 PM

lucky.

me too,

my UK CG sabre arrived by courier this morning, box had been torn across by an impact midway down the length on 3 sides of the box. it was saved by the multiple layers of bubble wrap and a surfeit of packing tape over that and the one remaining box side.

estcrh · 1st September 2017, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

lucky.

me too,

my UK CG sabre arrived by courier this morning, box had been torn across by an impact midway down the length on 3 sides of the box. it was saved by the multiple layers of bubble wrap and a surfeit of packing tape over that and the one remaining box side.

Here is a pistol that did not make it in one piece, it was sent to me from Europe but it was for some unknown never delivered and it was instead returned, the owner received it in the condition you see below.

estcrh · 1st September 2017, 01:08 PM

I just sent a Persian percussion rifle to Philip Tom for a stock repair, taking into account the damage shown here you can see my successful attempt to get it to Philip and back in undamaged condition.

rickystl · 1st September 2017, 06:51 PM

Hi Estcrh.

That's a beautiful Persian rifle!!! Looks like it "just" fit the gun case. I've found that even double-wall boxes are good for only one round trip. I wish they made those plastic gun cases for long barrels, but they don't. I've looked everywhere.
Here's a Sind rifle I sent to the gunsmith to make a small fix on the lock position where he needed the entire gun. Imagine trying to find a gun case to fit this. LOL If you've seen these guns the butt stock is not only very wide, but also very thin. So I ended up having a co-worker make me a crate from pine wood, reinforced at the corners and the middle. He actually went a bit over board with the construction. The foam is the type used over the top of hospital beds. I could have dropped this crate off a one story building and the contents would be ok. LOL!! I was astonished that the weight and dimensions "just" made the limits for USPS. But I can use this crate again.

Rick

Philip · 3rd September 2017, 07:26 AM

There are two types of long guns that I simply hate to ship because of packing hassles (1) the deeply recurved stocks like these Sind guns and Afghan jezails and (2) the pronounced pistol-grip butts typical of China and northern Vietnam. You have to over-engineer the packing, otherwise you're tempting fate. Commercial gun cases aren't long enough for the barrels on these guns, either (although I've squeaked under the size limit by dismounting the barrel and packing it alongside the stock, which removes a lot of stress on the curved thin wood, anyway.) But you still need a proper box...

I've had good luck buying snowboard cartons that a well-known shipping and warehouse supply company sells along with a cornucopia of other containers in all imaginable sizes. The only thing you have to order them in bundles of 5 or 10, since I'm in the restoration business that's not a problem. These cartons are 14 in. wide by about 5 thick, and about 70 in. long -- they just make it under the USPS length/girth max of 108 in. And are the only off-the-shelf size that will accommodate the two types of guns mentioned above. They are of very heavy corrugated stock and I use all the methods mentioned previously in this post to support, stabilize, and pad the contents on all sides. So far so good, although for domestic shipping I use FedEx instead of the mail.

estcrh · 4th September 2017, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Estcrh.

That's a beautiful Persian rifle!!! Looks like it "just" fit the gun case. I've found that even double-wall boxes are good for only one round trip. I wish they made those plastic gun cases for long barrels, but they don't. I've looked everywhere.
Here's a Sind rifle I sent to the gunsmith to make a small fix on the lock position where he needed the entire gun. Imagine trying to find a gun case to fit this. LOL If you've seen these guns the butt stock is not only very wide, but also very thin. So I ended up having a co-worker make me a crate from pine wood, reinforced at the corners and the middle. He actually went a bit over board with the construction. The foam is the type used over the top of hospital beds. I could have dropped this crate off a one story building and the contents would be ok. LOL!! I was astonished that the weight and dimensions "just" made the limits for USPS. But I can use this crate again.

Rick

Rick, nice example, how long is it? I also have one, it looks to be much longer but it is hard to tell from photos, I will find it and take some pictures and measurements.

ausjulius · 4th September 2017, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

The seller should have insured it, I have asked for a refund of course. I think only a wood box or gun case would have prevented this type of neglectful shipping.

looks like the forklift hit it full force i think a gun case would have failed. must have been 1000snd kgs slammed instantly on it

17th July 2017, 04:33 PM	#33
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Estcrh, Sorry to see the shipping tragedy. It reminds me of a similar USPS incident I had a couple years ago when I bought a pole arm from a respected forum member. Note before: Attached Images

17th July 2017, 04:38 PM	#34
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	And imagine my shock and horror when the postal worker brought this out to the counter for me to sign for!!! I told the postal worker are you serious you want me to sign for this!?!? And they just shrugged and said my best bet was to fill out a damage claim form Luckily this was fully insured! But still would have rather had a straight pole arm! Because the post paid the claim USPS keeps the pole arm! Attached Images Last edited by Nathaniel; 17th July 2017 at 07:16 PM.

17th July 2017, 05:22 PM	#36
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Once is one thing, but seeing this other very similar extreme damage example has really opened my eyes, I do not think I will simply rely on luck anymore when I ship any kind of weapon in the future. Attached Images

17th July 2017, 11:53 PM	#37
Pieje Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belgium Posts: 132	Several months ago I've sent a naginata from Europe to the USA using DHL. I bought a 2m long plastic tube to be sure it arrived safely, off course it did. Attached Images

18th July 2017, 01:33 AM	#39
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Industrial Strength I showed you guys some of this stuff in post #9; it comes in varying diameters and is practically indestructible due to double wall construction. It is also lighter than the PVC tubing shown in other's posts. The stuff can be a bit hard to find; try electrical contractors supply companies. Attached Images

17th July 2017, 02:05 PM	#32
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Yes, all true, my thoughts were directed at preservation, not remuneration.

19th July 2017, 06:56 AM	#40
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	These tubes are really handy for just about all spears, and polearms like nagynatas that aren't too wide or curved. Others, like halberds, ronconi, and the like, are problematic due to the width. But you can still use the PVC tube to "armor" the shaft area, then run a couple pieces of wood to brace the sides of the head, extending down the shaft a ways, following the principle that Artzi used to reinforce the Chinese bow. You have to "build" a heavy cardboard or thin plywood casing to enclose the head where it comes out of the tube, but if everything is strong and tight, there should be no worries. I'm a great believer in Gorilla Tape to hold things together. The trick is to protect sharp points and corners on weapons that don't come with scabbards. Corks, or wrapping with a strip of cardboard plus lots of tape and a prayer, are NOT foolproof. The sides and end of the casing need to be protected with wood covering any possible area that the tip can move and poke out.

19th July 2017, 11:29 PM	#41
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Another near disaster, this box contained a rather rare and valuable pistol and tabar. The box was split open and the end of the pistol barrel was sticking out, fortunately there did not seem to be any damage. The box was lined inside with additional cardboard and the items were bubble wrapped. Attached Images

20th July 2017, 12:28 AM	#42
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	ouch! ready for another horror story? Just today UPS delivered 3 talwars sent by a customer for restoration. I set the box down on one end so I could sign the delivery receipt, and felt something heavy go "thunk" inside. Turns out that one tip protruded about an inch, enough to nick the hardwood floor of the vestibule and it wasn't the first time it happened in transit because the point was already bent at an angle Sender used a flimsy box, not enough padding to keep contents (banded together) from "sloshing" , and absolutely nothing to guard the exposed points on these swords! I tend to discourage the use of UPS anyway, they tend to beat up parcels in general, almost as bad as the postal service, but neglected to advise sender in advance. One shipment, last year, was received with corner of box cut open and a couple of sword fittings purloined

21st July 2017, 09:18 PM	#43
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Here's another handy item to use in packing. Works well for many items. Air Conditioning tubing insulation. It's very inexpensive and you can pick it up at any Home Depot or Lowe's. If I recall, it comes in about 4 different diameters. Saves a lot of extra packing wrap, etc. in many cases. As an example: I wrap gun barrels with this insulation, tape the ends, and then slide it into a PVC tube. That way the gunsmith can simply return it to me in the same tube. Just change the shipping label. I can see this assisting in packing some blades, crossguards, handles, etc. Just an extra idea. Rick Attached Images

22nd July 2017, 01:03 AM	#44
Neil Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 109	So Sorry. For whatever it is worth you are clearly not alone. I have had numerous bent blades and broken tips over the years too. I tape wooden shims over the ends of the bare blades I send and pack the surrounding areas firmly. Over seas packages go in strong tubes. I also write in fragile in large print on all sides of the packages. Just my two cents.

23rd July 2017, 10:14 AM	#45
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	I just received a full refund including shipping. The seller offered a partial refund if I decided to have the sword repaired but I decided not to risk it.

23rd July 2017, 06:16 PM	#46
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Well, glad you received a full refund in this sad situation. Probably the best outcome in this case. But I'm sure you will not forget about that shamsir for a while. Such a shame. Rick

31st July 2017, 03:26 AM	#47
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	That tip with the plastic pipe is very good. With smaller diameterpipes i trsnsport my fishing rods in the plane.

3rd August 2017, 10:09 PM	#48
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	I like using cardboard edge/corner reinforcement for objects that are significantly heavier and hard than a box they would be shipped or moved in.

12th August 2017, 08:44 AM	#49
GePi Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 95	Umm, it seems the sword has come back to live. Perhaps the listing got reposted automatically, but perhaps someone should contact the seller... I too would like to add my condolences. Literally the same week I was delivered a shamshir (the package simply dumped in front of my apartment door without me being present) with the point literally sticking 2 inches outside of the package! Luckily no damage to the blade and no blood spurts in the surrounding area, so it seems I dodged a bullet there. Exceptionally bad packaging, from a reputable acution house no less... Last edited by Robert; 12th August 2017 at 09:46 AM. Reason: The posting of links to any live auction or items currently for sale is strictly against forum rules.

1st September 2017, 12:05 PM	#51
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Another near miss, this Egyptian rolling block bayonet was shipped to me from Europe, see how it arrived, fortunately is does not seem to have been damaged. Attached Images

1st September 2017, 12:19 PM	#52
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	lucky. me too, my UK CG sabre arrived by courier this morning, box had been torn across by an impact midway down the length on 3 sides of the box. it was saved by the multiple layers of bubble wrap and a surfeit of packing tape over that and the one remaining box side.

1st September 2017, 01:08 PM	#54
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	I just sent a Persian percussion rifle to Philip Tom for a stock repair, taking into account the damage shown here you can see my successful attempt to get it to Philip and back in undamaged condition. Attached Images

1st September 2017, 06:51 PM	#55
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Estcrh. That's a beautiful Persian rifle!!! Looks like it "just" fit the gun case. I've found that even double-wall boxes are good for only one round trip. I wish they made those plastic gun cases for long barrels, but they don't. I've looked everywhere. Here's a Sind rifle I sent to the gunsmith to make a small fix on the lock position where he needed the entire gun. Imagine trying to find a gun case to fit this. LOL If you've seen these guns the butt stock is not only very wide, but also very thin. So I ended up having a co-worker make me a crate from pine wood, reinforced at the corners and the middle. He actually went a bit over board with the construction. The foam is the type used over the top of hospital beds. I could have dropped this crate off a one story building and the contents would be ok. LOL!! I was astonished that the weight and dimensions "just" made the limits for USPS. But I can use this crate again. Rick Attached Images

3rd September 2017, 07:26 AM	#56
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	shipping Sind rifles There are two types of long guns that I simply hate to ship because of packing hassles (1) the deeply recurved stocks like these Sind guns and Afghan jezails and (2) the pronounced pistol-grip butts typical of China and northern Vietnam. You have to over-engineer the packing, otherwise you're tempting fate. Commercial gun cases aren't long enough for the barrels on these guns, either (although I've squeaked under the size limit by dismounting the barrel and packing it alongside the stock, which removes a lot of stress on the curved thin wood, anyway.) But you still need a proper box... I've had good luck buying snowboard cartons that a well-known shipping and warehouse supply company sells along with a cornucopia of other containers in all imaginable sizes. The only thing you have to order them in bundles of 5 or 10, since I'm in the restoration business that's not a problem. These cartons are 14 in. wide by about 5 thick, and about 70 in. long -- they just make it under the USPS length/girth max of 108 in. And are the only off-the-shelf size that will accommodate the two types of guns mentioned above. They are of very heavy corrugated stock and I use all the methods mentioned previously in this post to support, stabilize, and pad the contents on all sides. So far so good, although for domestic shipping I use FedEx instead of the mail.