![]() |
![]() |
#31 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 368
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#32 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 100
|
![]()
Hi RSword,
I must say I'm still drooling over the first Bugis keris you posted. Just out of curiosity, is the batang covered in gold, gilded silver or brass. How old is the keris and who happens to be the lucky owner. Truly a blade to die for! ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#33 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
|
![]()
I reckon the gold work to be 20th century work, which if we really stretch it back, would be about 100years, but maybe the middle ground of 50years is more likely.
![]() The reason why I think the gold work is new is because we don't see similarly elaborately gold-worked Malay/Bugis examples on older pieces in books. There are gold pendok and pendokos, but not with all these gold filigree, and so much of it. I always have the idea that pre-20th century kerises wear gold a lot more sparingly than post-20th century equivalents. Also, the older gold kerises use lower-purity gold (9-14k) whereas the examples we see in the pics here are unabashedly high carat shiny yellow gold. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#34 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 84
|
![]()
Still with the tapak kuda hilt -- I would imagine that, given the same geographical and cultural milieu (S and E Sumatra), the tapak kuda would have been a logical accessory than another design on the other side of the mountains, as it were.
Pak Rasdan can solve this mystery -- can you show a shot of the top of the hilt? Or maybe you can tell us if it's a tapak kuda. Whose golden keris is that anyway? Sultan of Selangor? Or, as my imagination runs wild, is that the elusive golden keris salvaged from the Flora del Mel? ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#35 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 125
|
![]()
Alamak! Rahman, tapak kuda lah...mana ada kaki kuda punya hulu sih?
![]() I'd say that piece has the most recent goldwork though. It lacks the finess of some ofthe earlier work. I'm going to have to disagree with Blu on the goldwork of Rsword's piece though. I'm thinking more mid-19th c. By 1900 most of the Sultan's were under Colonial domination, there was a precipitous decline in the quality of - especially - high end keris and the Raja Raja went off and became good little Westernized puppets, spending thier money on motorcars, waterford crystal and Gordon's gin. There's a similar example in Jensen - attributed to an Acehnese prince but clearly Straits in origin - I can't remember if its dated and I don't have a copy of the book so maybe someone can look it up - if I'm not wrong it was mid-19th. RSword's other piece also strikes me as S. Sumatran Bugis in origin. The blade especially. The dress is about as generically "Bugis" as you could get. Someday I'm going to get off my butt and take a trip down through Siak, Indragiri and Palembang. Have a sniff around and see what turns up. But for the time being I'd say this style is safely S. Sumatran. Actually telling these things apart isn't really all that hard most of the time - there are some wierd ones that turn up but for the most part its pretty straightforward. Hard and fast rules though, will usually get you in trouble. I'm not going to go through a lot of trouble to write out all of the defining characteristics either - that's a hell of a lot of work and I was kinda' saving it for a book ![]() You should all keep in mind that in the mid-1700's there were over 40,000 "Bugis" living in Riau. By the 1860's their descendants had become "Melayu keturunan Bugis", that is "Malay's of Bugis descent." In other words for all intents and purposes - at least for 19th c and later pieces, which is most of them - all of these keris are "Malay" keris anyway. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#36 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
|
![]()
Dave, the goldwork I was referring to was on the piece posted by Rasdan, not Rsword. Rsword's keris gold pendok is older, I agree.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#37 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 84
|
![]()
Sorry Dave... was mulling over the casino issue when I wrote about Kaki Kuda
![]() Let me know if you want to trek down Sumatra... I'd like to tag along and learn from the Mahaguru first hand. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#38 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,083
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#39 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,083
|
![]()
Here is a link to a prior thread that shows a few close up shots of the first Bugis keris I posted.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=272 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#40 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
|
![]() Quote:
The blade however, looks more Javanese, (Dapur Sengkelat ?). Hilt cup, looks like a variation of the Bugis cup. Just my opinion, I may be wrong. ![]() Last edited by Alam Shah; 15th March 2005 at 04:30 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#41 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 368
|
![]() Quote:
Alam - I think this is just a composite keris. Everything is wrong. Perhaps the dress were newly made and the tukang thought i may be cool like that. And mu opinion the mata may be javaneese or most likely south sumatran. If its javaneese it is most likely the tang of this keris had been cut to be fitted with a kerdas hilt. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#42 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
|
![]() Quote:
According to some esoteric belief, a cut tang (or pesi), might weaken or destroy the strength of the initial spirit within ('hilang semangat keris'). ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#43 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 368
|
![]()
Some time ago i had a new Palembang piece. Its actually a javaneese keris fitted in a Palembang dress. The tang is obviously been cut away. Thats where i begin to observe that javaneese kerisses in Malay dress be it new or old, most of them had their tang shorten. Unless, of course it may not been cut if fitted with a taller jawa demam hilt. However we generally can observe that javaneese tang is much slenderer compared to Malay/Bugis etc tangs. Bottom line, before purchasing a keris, the tang size and length is really important. "Bugis" empus in Aeng Tong Tong already discovered this but then theres a lot more for them to learn. In a few years, they'll catch to the beat.
Last edited by rasdan; 15th March 2005 at 09:42 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#44 | |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#45 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indonesia Samarinda Kalimantan Timur Bugis
Posts: 15
|
![]()
This Kriss From North Sumatera. and this kriss familiar own by Batakness culture one culture of in indonesia in familiar with kriss is batak.
in usually the owner of this kriss in batak culture call Datuk. Thank YOU |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#46 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 15
|
![]()
This is original Bugis Kriss Lamba 15 from Bone, South Celebes
I got from veteran soldier WW2... estimate 18 century... from 4 generations... Last edited by David; 7th June 2017 at 03:03 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#47 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,096
|
![]()
Hi Kerisbiz. I had to delete your link to your keris. All examples must be uploaded directly to the forum if you want to present your keris. This is because linked images disappear over time and leave sometimes large holes in our archived discussions. Thanks!
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#48 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
The mods seem to enforce the rules more strictly recently - it definitely is important for keeping the info intact in the future as can be easily seen when browsing old threads which tend to have lots of dead links to pics that are dearly missing nowadays.
I do hope you give it another try to upload the pics to this site. If you experience any problems, just ask! From what I can gather from your posting, I'd suggest to open a new thread for your keris rather than adding it to an old one - most pieces benefit from a dedicated discussion! Regards, Kai |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#49 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,096
|
![]() Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|