A naginata ... real or fake.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Freezing is an efficient way of getting rid of wood worm and possible eggs. I guess the sword is too big to fit in a freezer? I have a French Napoleonic sabre AN XI legere with woodworm holes in the grip. I simply waited until winter and left it on the balcony for a couple of days in sub-zero Celsius temperatures to kill any remaining worms or eggs. Guess in Portugal you don’t have that luxury?

That is great advice. Do you think it need to be -20 C or more?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Freezing is an efficient way of getting rid of wood worm and possible eggs. I guess the sword is too big to fit in a freezer? I have a French Napoleonic sabre AN XI legere with woodworm holes in the grip. I simply waited until winter and left it on the balcony for a couple of days in sub-zero Celsius temperatures to kill any remaining worms or eggs. Guess in Portugal you don’t have that luxury?

The lowest i can get in my balcony is a tropical -1º ... in two or three occasions per year .

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

That is great advice. Do you think it need to be -20 C or more?

https://southwestmuseums.org.uk/wp-c...-treatment.pdf

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

... perfection is preferred if not expected...

Let us then give a chance to a wider notion of perfection.
Suppose, in my imagination, i find evidence that the item in discussion was brought back by Portuguese navigators during the XVI century or so.
I would clearly reject any proposal to swap it for any 'common' example in pristine condition ... with ID card and all.
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .


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[CutlassCollector]

Originally Posted by fernando

Let us then give a chance to a wider notion of perfection.
Suppose, in my imagination, i find evidence that the item in discussion was brought back by Portuguese navigators during the XVI century or so.
I would clearly reject any proposal to swap it for any 'common' example in pristine condition ... with ID card and all.
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .
.

And no doubt it is a great find Fernando and a worthy addition to your collection preserved as it is.

Good finds and history is what makes collecting so interesting.

It could well have been brought back with the early explorers but I have another theory that occurs to me because the blade is in such good condition for a 500 year old sword - compare it with western blades of the same age, that have not spent life in a museum.
It suggests, perhaps, that it was treasured and cared for by a samurai family for generations and only in the last few decades has it been left to rust.
We know the samurai did not just disappear but became the officer class in army, navy and air force. They took their ancestral swords to war in modern mounts. Some pilots carried short blades - wakizashi or tanto in their cockpits and a naginata can be mounted in short sword form with a shortened tang.

After the Japanese defeat in 1945 the swords were surrendered. Soldiers took them home as spoils of war and it is thought that over 100,000 Japanese swords are in the USA and many more in the UK and Europe. Many of these would not have been subject to the same regular care as in a Japanese household.

Just a theory of course, but it would help explain its great condition.

[fernando]

Thank you CC.
A rather rational reasoning .

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Fernando,
These items may possibly be of assistance.
My Regards,
Norman.

[fernando]

Thanks much, Norman. With yours, i have gathered quite a few suggestions by now. This one comes with an injection system.

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[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

Mother of pearl, as already confirmed.
...

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Thanks for the better photo, looks just like MOP pieces.

[ariel]

fernando:
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .

__________________________________________________ ________--

A perfect attitude!

[Battara]

Oh I agree. I have a koto wakazashi with my favorite - mokume hada. However it has some issues and is mumei. Thus it is not a high value piece, but I keep it and love it, imperfections and all (and for a koto blade some kizu imperfections are to be expected.).

Again congratulations!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by ariel

... A perfect attitude! ...

.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

...Again congratulations!

Thank you José.

[Kmaddock]

Hi Fernando,

Following on from the PM

If it were mine I would purchase 2 + M of sewer pipe with caps on both ends and suspend the staff inside the pipe with some string and an old T shirt soaked in ammonis at the bottom (not touching the shaft) and close both caps.

Ammonia is very volatile after a few hours there should be nothing left alive.

Lovely historical item from the time of Christopher Columbus, I have some Japanese swords and the condition of such ancient artefacts can be amazing.

Regards,

Ken

[fernando]

Lovely idea, Ken. What would be the pipe diameter; as to leave some space for the 1 1/4 " staff (32 m/m)

[Kmaddock]

Hi Fernando,
I would purchase around 100mm diameter "nominally 4 inch in Ireland" but anything similar would suffice,
You would want a bit of circulation to occur.
Regards
ken

[fernando]

Fine Ken; thanks much.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by fernando

Let us then give a chance to a wider notion of perfection.
Suppose, in my imagination, i find evidence that the item in discussion was brought back by Portuguese navigators during the XVI century or so.
I would clearly reject any proposal to swap it for any 'common' example in pristine condition ... with ID card and all.
No doubt my Naginata is not indicated for Nihonto perfectionists but, would be the 'perfect find' for me .

I had the good fortune to see this amazing screen a few years ago in Moscow at an exhibition dedicated to Portuguese navigators. Unfortunately, there were almost no weapons there (which I hoped in my heart). But there were wonderful objects of the XV-XVII centuries from Japan, China, India, West Africa, which changed my point of view on the works of that era. In particular, Japanese lacquerware is very different from our usual products of the XIX-XX centuries. The same can be attributed to Chinese porcelain.

In my opinion, Japanese weapons of the XVI-XVIII centuries located in European museums and got there before the lifting of the ban after the Meiji restoration, is an interesting subject for scientific research. In addition to the very fact of its presence, this weapon can tell a lot about the diplomatic, trade and cultural ties between the states and peoples of the East and West. I am sure that in Portugal they can tell a lot about this to the whole world. And it is hard to imagine how much we could have known if the Great Lisbon earthquake of 1755 had not destroyed so many artifacts and documents of the history of navigation.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

I had the good fortune to see this amazing screen a few years ago in Moscow at an exhibition dedicated to Portuguese navigators. Unfortunately, there were almost no weapons there (which I hoped in my heart). But there were wonderful objects of the XV-XVII centuries from Japan, China, India, West Africa, which changed my point of view on the works of that era. In particular, Japanese lacquerware is very different from our usual products of the XIX-XX centuries. The same can be attributed to Chinese porcelain.

In my opinion, Japanese weapons of the XVI-XVIII centuries located in European museums and got there before the lifting of the ban after the Meiji restoration, is an interesting subject for scientific research. In addition to the very fact of its presence, this weapon can tell a lot about the diplomatic, trade and cultural ties between the states and peoples of the East and West. I am sure that in Portugal they can tell a lot about this to the whole world. And it is hard to imagine how much we could have known if the Great Lisbon earthquake of 1755 had not destroyed so many artifacts and documents of the history of navigation.

Absolutely, Ren Ren. I see that you are well informed. In the great exhibition "ENCOMPASSING THE GLOBE - Portugal and the World in the 16th & 17th Centuries (organized by the Smithsonian), several examples of Japanese/Portuguese cultural exchange, the so called Nanban Art, may be seen; from which a powder flask, a couple of Nagenashima muskets ... and a Christian Japanese ( note the crucifix).


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[fernando]

Originally Posted by Kmaddock

...Ammonia is very volatile after a few hours there should be nothing left alive.

Are you there Ken ? Can you define a "few hours" ?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

Are you there Ken ? Can you define a "few hours" ?

Few is more than 2.

Normal household ammonia evaporates quickly & is used to clean glass because of it. If you are using a stronger clinical concentration, I'd expect it to 'dry', i.e. the NH3/4 gasifies, very quick, quicker than water. The water component then dries as you would expect for your local Temp and humidity.


I'd wait a couple hours, then sniff it, if you smell ammonia, wait some more, until the smell dissipates.


Make sure you ventilate the area, do not mix ammonia with bleach or you'll generate poison gas. It can also darken woods with residual tannin, like oak.

[fernando]

Thank you Wayne.
I have used Ken's recipe; the wooden pole hanging inside a plastic tube ... completely sealed. In the bottom, two pieces of cloth heavily soaked in 24% ammonia, 2/3 liter of it. I left it sealed during 4 1/2 hours. When we opened it, the whole product was kept in there; i could evaorate, but couldn't escape from inside the tube. The burning vapors of this thing are completely unbearable, despite the (COVID) mask and glasses. I realize that, if any worms were still living inside the wood, the ammonia wacked them for good.


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[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by fernando

Absolutely, Ren Ren. I see that you are well informed. In the great exhibition "ENCOMPASSING THE GLOBE - Portugal and the World in the 16th & 17th Centuries (organized by the Smithsonian), several examples of Japanese/Portuguese cultural exchange, the so called Nanban Art, may be seen; from which a powder flask, a couple of Nagenashima muskets ... and a Christian Japanese ( note the crucifix).


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Thanks Fernando! These are rare and wonderful examples of Japan's cross-cultural connections.

[fernando]

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[Kmaddock]

Sorry
Just back on grid this morning,
Glad the plan worked out
Regards
Ken

[fernando]

Thanks much, Ken.

Best.
Fernando