My first jezail

[RDGAC]

... and yet again, more information. I will here hold up my hands and say that I have pretty much no idea of how to care for wood, let alone antique wood that's seen a lot of hard work in dry climates; this is very much a steep learning curve for me. I intend to try some linseed oil, although I'm not sure whether I should use the "more manageable" boiled stuff or the more traditional (and well-proven) pure variety; as a total novice, still learning the ropes, I don't want to make a horrible mess of things, but on the other hand, if I start off with the best method I'll eventually grasp how to use it, without picking up bad habits en route. Decisions, decisions... anyway, tomorrow's job (day off) is to buy a steel pipe and work out how to cut my serrations into its rim. From there I'll need a good drill bit and some thinner rod, but I reckon I can just about cope with that.

The results will, no doubt, be rough-and-ready; I can't help but think that that's the most appropriate sort of kit, in a way, to work on such a rough-and-ready (but still very potent) gun.

[RDGAC]

Hello again fellas, been quiet for the past month owing to cash shortages and work taking up rather a lot of time. My unblocking device is coming on apace, and although rough it seems it might do the trick. Currently the plan is to stick some boiling water down to help loosen anything in there, pour some of it out, get the rod (galvanised steel with some rather crude teeth) and get cracking. The only possibility that worries me is that it might not be hard enough to cut either hard, glazed fouling or a large mass of corroded steel, but we shall have to see. If the worst comes to the worst, there's a firm not far from where I live that can probably make me a rod with a hardened steel crown saw on its end.

While reading Elgood's excellent Firearms of the Islamic World, I've had some thoughts about jezails in general. Specifically, what made them so effective in irregular combat?

The old tale is simply that jezails had long, long barrels, giving improved muzzle velocity and accuracy compared to European service muskets (most famously the Brown Bess, especially the 39-inch Pattern III). Yet both of the weapons I've had personal acquaintance with are scarcely any different; my jezail's barrel is exactly 39in, although the Museum's weapon is rifled (which obviously would allow much improved accuracy at range), albeit with a 43.25in barrel. LPCA's page on IDing weapons from the area shows a jezail with a abrrel of 117cm (or 46.8in, in old money), while Bluelake's jezail has a barrel of 58in, much more what I had expected for these weapons.

Without wishing to teach my grandmother(s) to suck eggs, I'll go on further. Elgood discusses the muskets of Sind, and shows three examples; he adds that:

The evidence of travellers like Burnes, Pottinger and Elphinstone makes it clear than Sindi culture is essentially Afghan, as might be expected from their geographical position and trade pattern. The jezail used in Sind, with its distinctive butt, is in fact the chosen form of firearm used over a large area of Afghanistan... The question arises as to how to distinguish between the firearms of Sind and Afghanistan and whether the shape of the butt varied on a tribal or regional basis... A French officer who travelled through kandahar in 1826 described the local infantry as being with 'sword and matchlock, long but of small bore', a description which matches the Sindi barrels.

His illustration of three Sindi pieces in the Tareq Rajab collection is, happily, accompanied by dimensions, indicating that one (rifled) is of 42in, one of 49in, and one of 42.8in, the latter pair being smoothbores. This is curious; my first acquaintance with the jezail was as a sort of semi-legendary weapon, a giant musket of six feet or more in the barrel that could kill at three or four hundred yards, and against which European service weapons were profoundly inadequate, mostly due to their short barrels. Yet my own jezail is of 39in; there seem moreover to be many Sindi and Afghan guns that are scarcely any longer and, indeed, in the same place from which I acquired my jezail there was .a weapon which looked, even by Western standards, almost carbine-sized. This was also, quite clearly, a jezail-type weapon of some kind; perhaps made for a boy?

At any rate, I find all this very interesting and it leads me to a couple of questions. Firstly, just what are the average proportions for these weapons? Were they really that much longer in the barrel than their European counterparts? If not, what gave them the edge they have long been reputed to possess? Were they loaded differently, for example - using a tight-fitting ball and leather patch, a measured power charge and so forth? It's all very puzzling indeed.

As an aside, can anyone recommend some more books on the subject of firearms in the Afghanistan-Northern Indian region?

[RDGAC]

I'm in the mood for more advice, if anyone's here to offer it; having done a bit of probing (and even a glimpse with my shiny new bore light) I'm confident that this mysterious obstruction is much-hardened powder fouling. It's exceptionally hard, which I should think would rule out lead; when I attempted to cut into it with my sharpened galvanised steel pipe (patent pending), the teeth came out looking as though someone had taken a hammer to them, indicating it's harder than the steel itself (which might eliminate corroded ferrous metal). So far I've shoved boiling water down there about eight times, and come up dry on each occasion save for small bits of stuff which periodically emerge when the barrel's drained. This stuff feels very gritty between the fingers; it's brownish in colour (most likely because it's covered in a film of oil and corroded steel) and only comes in small lumps, about the size of a peppercorn at most.

So far all I can think of is continuing to pour in boiling water and try to dissolve and dislodge as much as I can, coupled with a rather crude attempt to get through the stuff by tapping the rod in a little with a hammer, in the hope it'll break up some of the material. The results thus far suggest it'll take a long time to achieve anything. Moreover, the blockage is so tight that the touch-hole is bone dry and the barrel below it cool to the touch, even when the rest is filled with boiling water.

[Rick]

Coca Cola will eat most anything rust wise .
Have a Coke !
Instead of 'down the hatch' , try 'down the barrel' and let it sit overnight .

[RDGAC]

Rick, I hear what you say. I remember dissolving teeth in it in school; that was, to say the least, a bit of an eye-opener. Still drink the damn stuff, though... anyway, what I'm worried about is the possibility of the Coke actually damaging the barrel as well as dissolving the obstruction! I don't know what this one's made from, but think it safe to assume it's either steel (probably not terribly good), or wrought iron, neither of which are particularly resistant to acids. If Coke can dissolve tooth enamel, I fear what it might do to the integrity of a wrought iron gun barrel. Have you ever used it for things like this?

On a more positive note, the lock is very nearly sorted out! After months of careful, patient filing, she now fires from the full cock (trigger's nice and light, too), and neither fires from, nor grabs at, the half-cock! Right now, having just put her back together, I'm pretty damn pleased with myself. All I need to do now is solder some brass onto the toe of the tumbler; the mainspring is now precariously close to dropping off it altogether, and it'll be the devil of a job to compress it back into place if it does come off. With that in mind, lads, have any of you done a similar op on a flintlock? Any advice?

All the best, Merry Christmas to one and all.

Meredydd

[rickystl]

Hello. Well, you have had quite a journey. Things appear to be looking up. Here is my Jazail I purchased from Antique Storehouse in Portsmouh in you area. A friend of mine from Canada will be in the UK in January and will ship it to me here in the USA. Mine has a percussion Enfield lock. I plan on having a barrel liner installed for shooting. Rick.

[RDGAC]

By 'eck! I saw that one when I went to Portsmouth to collect mine; it's a rather good-looking weapon, very short, almost carbine-sized. It'll be interesting to shoot, I imagine; you must tell us how you find the recoil etc.

All the best!

Meredydd

[Rick]

Originally Posted by RDGAC

Rick, I hear what you say. I remember dissolving teeth in it in school; that was, to say the least, a bit of an eye-opener. Still drink the damn stuff, though... anyway, what I'm worried about is the possibility of the Coke actually damaging the barrel as well as dissolving the obstruction! I don't know what this one's made from, but think it safe to assume it's either steel (probably not terribly good), or wrought iron, neither of which are particularly resistant to acids. If Coke can dissolve tooth enamel, I fear what it might do to the integrity of a wrought iron gun barrel. Have you ever used it for things like this?

All the best, Merry Christmas to one and all.

Meredydd

No, I haven't used it on Arms; more in mechanical situations .

For de-corroding kerises I use acidic fruit juice soaks .

[ikzelf]

Hello, guys, About a month ago, I bought two rifles from an old guy, from Gent(Belgium).
They have a lot of characteristics of jezail guns, but the stocks are not like the normal stocks for a Jezail or any other rifle from that area.

The locks work, there are a lot of silver decorations, and the inlay is bone,
I think, the coloring is to dark to be ivory(Again I think)

If any of You guys have info on these guns, please let me know.
Greetz,

John.

[ikzelf]

Hello, here are some pictures of two rifles I bought from an old guy from Gent(Belgium).
They have a lot of charistics of Jezail rifles but the stocks are not like any from that part of the world.
Can anyone help me identifying these rifles?

Greetz,

John.

[carlitobrigante]

i cant help with the identification, but that looks beautifull and worthy of its own thread on the forum where others who can help will see it easier.

regards

[RDGAC]

Interesting development. Whilst prepping for a try at the Coca-Cola method, I put the barrel muzzle-downwards so as to unscrew the tang. In doing so, I inadvertently deposited a small heap of dirt on the floor. Realising that this looked surprisingly like the stuff that keeps coming out on the end of my tools, I hastened to pour some more onto a handy sheet of card.

Thus, for the first time, I can see exactly what it is I'm fighting - what's causing this jam in the barrel. A predominantly greyish-white, fairly coarse powder, with many varied grains of all shapes, sizes and colours, this stuff appears to be responsive more to percussive action than any attempt at cutting. My hope is that, if this stuff is just highly compacted powder, it might be possible simply to break it up and then pour the whole shebang out.

However, my key question is this: what is it? Powder fouling? The remains of a lead ball? Some odd sort of corrosion? Any and all answers will be considered. Unless they suggest it's a mango.

Thanks lads!

Meredydd

[Rick]

From the pictures it looks like sand; I figure you've ruled that out though .

What happens when you wet the stuff ?

[RDGAC]

I don't think it's sand; if it is, it's both extraordinarily fine and extremely compacted where it's in the barrel. On the other hand, when moistened, it seems to coagulate very rapidly - just like sand, but also like most other powders I've come across. Doesn't appear especially hydrophobic, in other words, but I can't tell if it's any more hygroscopic than sand. See attached picture, taken fresh in the cardboard packaging roll-cum-petri dish

[ward]

The gun with bone inlay is modern work from Morocco, seen them a lot.

[RDGAC]

Finally tried the Coke trick, and it didn't make much impression. It sat down the barrel for seventeen hours (!) and in the end, the obstruction remains as hard as ever. I'm starting to wonder if it's time to admit defeat and get the thing to a gunsmith, though that would feel like a defeat.

OTOH, I could simply dry the barrel out as far as possible and then go back to trying to break it up. I think exposure to any sort of moisture is encouraging that powdery stuff to congeal into a hard-to-break mass; perhaps removing as much moisture as I can would help reduce it to its more powdery form.

Meredydd