CARVING VARIATIONS ON OCEANIC CLUBS

Tim Simmons · 28th February 2010, 06:22 PM

Thanks Lew. I would give all my collection for this. Sheer genius, out of this world beautiful, very scary and so cleverly made.

graeme gt · 28th February 2010, 06:45 PM

My pole club.

VANDOO · 1st March 2010, 04:34 AM

VERY NICE CLUBS GUYS

I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY CONNECTIONS BETWEEN CARVING ON CLUBS AND TATOOS (TATU).SO I WILL ADD HERE A QUOTE ON POLYNESIAN TATOOS

"POLYNESIAN MYTHOLOGY= THE 2 SONS OF THE GOD OF CREATION TA'AROA TAUGHT THE ART OF TATOOING TO HUMANS. IT WAS A TAPU OR SACRED ART FORM. IT WAS PREFORMED BY SHAMAN (TAHUA) WHO WERE HIGHLY TRAINED IN RELIGIOUS RITUAL, THE MEANING OF THE DESIGNS AND TECKNICAL ASPECTS OF THE ART. THE DESIGNS AND THEIR LOCATIONS ON THE BODY WERE DETERMINED BY ONE'S GENEOLOGY, POSITION IN SOCIETY AND PERSONAL ACHIEVEMENTS." END QUOTE

JUDGEING FROM THE STRICT CEREMONIES AND TABOOS (TAPU) ASSOCIATED WITH POLYNESIAN SOCIETY I AM SURE THERE IS A LOT OF MEANING TO ANY DESIGNS USED ON ARTEFACTS AS WELL AS PEOPLE. I WILL TRY AND SEE IF ANY TATOO DESIGNS ARE THE SAME AS THOSE ON WEAPONS AND IF THE MEANING OR PURPOSE IS KNOWN FOR TATOOS PERHAPS IT WOULD BE THE SAME ON WEAPONS?.
IF ANYONE HAS ACCESS TO GOOD REFRENCE MATERIAL OR CURRENT KNOWLEGE JUMP IN AS I WILL BE STARTING FROM SCRATCH AS FAR AS REFRENCE ON TATOOS GOES.

ONE OLD PICTURE OF MARQUESAN WARRIORS
ONE SMALL HAND CLUB IN LIGHT COLOR HEAVY WOOD, THE KIND THAT DOSEN'T SHOW PATINA JUST WEAR AND DIRT.
THE HANDLE OF A STRANGE CLUB I SUSPECT FROM THE ISLANDS NEAR NEW GUINEA.

laEspadaAncha · 29th June 2010, 02:47 AM

Picked this up from an LA-area gallery over the weekend; was labeled in its previous collection as having come from the Solomon Islands. The symmetry of the incised design is impressive and well-executed, and seems to have some age to it. Club measures about 51.5 cm in OAL and weighs approximately 445 grams.

Tim Simmons · 29th June 2010, 05:05 PM

What does the whole thing look like? This form of club in the publications I have say they are from Malaita Island and subsequently known as Malaita clubs. The decoration is very interesting, the way it fits the form so well. The fact that the design of the decortation is so formal and strongly cruciform, it does make me wonder wether this was made after missionary contamination or should I say influence.

laEspadaAncha · 29th June 2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The fact that the design of the decortation is so formal and strongly cruciform, it does make me wonder wether this was made after missionary contamination or should I say influence.

Hi Tim,

I wondered the same - I showed it to two friends - one thought it was intended to follow the cruciform pattern of an intended representation of a cross, while the other thought it simply followed the natural vertical and horizontal axes of the club.

Anyway, here's the full club:

I look forward to your thoughts on the same...

Tim Simmons · 29th June 2010, 06:58 PM

I think it is really nice and I want one most desperately. It could well be just that the decoration fits the form. The cross as a motif is not the exclusive property of "christianity" The use of a formal structured line in decoration is common. On this club the decoration is very bold and solid which seems to suggest a cross more than just following the form. Even after colonial and missionary governance, clubs would still be carried for minor tribal dispute and as part of general attire? This link is interesting, the first man struck dead is by a gun but used as a club. Could it be that by this time anybody who was anybody wanted to be seen with a gun? even if they had no bullets?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaita_massacre

fearn · 29th June 2010, 06:55 PM

Hi Vandoo,

One note: Tahua (aka Kahuna, Tohunga, Tohuna, etc) is probably better translated "master" or "sensei" than "shaman." Polynesian societies used what we would call "magic" in every aspect of their lives, from gardening and fishing to making tools, canoes, religion, and healing.

As for the designs, I think you'll find that the designs on Marquesan clubs and Maori wooden clubs closely mirror tattoo designs.

So far as I know, Polynesian tattoo and club designs are both descended from Lapita pottery designs, based on the archeology. What this means is that patterns on lapita pottery looks a lot like what you see on Maori and Marquesan faces.

I'm quite sure this is true for Polynesia. Conversely, I don't think it works for Melanesia or Micronesia.

Hope this helps,

F

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

VERY NICE CLUBS GUYS

I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY CONNECTIONS BETWEEN CARVING ON CLUBS AND TATOOS (TATU).SO I WILL ADD HERE A QUOTE ON POLYNESIAN TATOOS

"POLYNESIAN MYTHOLOGY= THE 2 SONS OF THE GOD OF CREATION TA'AROA TAUGHT THE ART OF TATOOING TO HUMANS. IT WAS A TAPU OR SACRED ART FORM. IT WAS PREFORMED BY SHAMAN (TAHUA) WHO WERE HIGHLY TRAINED IN RELIGIOUS RITUAL, THE MEANING OF THE DESIGNS AND TECKNICAL ASPECTS OF THE ART. THE DESIGNS AND THEIR LOCATIONS ON THE BODY WERE DETERMINED BY ONE'S GENEOLOGY, POSITION IN SOCIETY AND PERSONAL ACHIEVEMENTS." END QUOTE

JUDGEING FROM THE STRICT CEREMONIES AND TABOOS (TAPU) ASSOCIATED WITH POLYNESIAN SOCIETY I AM SURE THERE IS A LOT OF MEANING TO ANY DESIGNS USED ON ARTEFACTS AS WELL AS PEOPLE. I WILL TRY AND SEE IF ANY TATOO DESIGNS ARE THE SAME AS THOSE ON WEAPONS AND IF THE MEANING OR PURPOSE IS KNOWN FOR TATOOS PERHAPS IT WOULD BE THE SAME ON WEAPONS?.
IF ANYONE HAS ACCESS TO GOOD REFRENCE MATERIAL OR CURRENT KNOWLEGE JUMP IN AS I WILL BE STARTING FROM SCRATCH AS FAR AS REFRENCE ON TATOOS GOES.

ONE OLD PICTURE OF MARQUESAN WARRIORS
ONE SMALL HAND CLUB IN LIGHT COLOR HEAVY WOOD, THE KIND THAT DOSEN'T SHOW PATINA JUST WEAR AND DIRT.
THE HANDLE OF A STRANGE CLUB I SUSPECT FROM THE ISLANDS NEAR NEW GUINEA.

28th February 2010, 06:22 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	Thanks Lew. I would give all my collection for this. Sheer genius, out of this world beautiful, very scary and so cleverly made. Attached Images

28th February 2010, 06:45 PM	#2
graeme gt Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 97	My pole club. Attached Images

1st March 2010, 04:34 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VERY NICE CLUBS GUYS I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY CONNECTIONS BETWEEN CARVING ON CLUBS AND TATOOS (TATU).SO I WILL ADD HERE A QUOTE ON POLYNESIAN TATOOS "POLYNESIAN MYTHOLOGY= THE 2 SONS OF THE GOD OF CREATION TA'AROA TAUGHT THE ART OF TATOOING TO HUMANS. IT WAS A TAPU OR SACRED ART FORM. IT WAS PREFORMED BY SHAMAN (TAHUA) WHO WERE HIGHLY TRAINED IN RELIGIOUS RITUAL, THE MEANING OF THE DESIGNS AND TECKNICAL ASPECTS OF THE ART. THE DESIGNS AND THEIR LOCATIONS ON THE BODY WERE DETERMINED BY ONE'S GENEOLOGY, POSITION IN SOCIETY AND PERSONAL ACHIEVEMENTS." END QUOTE JUDGEING FROM THE STRICT CEREMONIES AND TABOOS (TAPU) ASSOCIATED WITH POLYNESIAN SOCIETY I AM SURE THERE IS A LOT OF MEANING TO ANY DESIGNS USED ON ARTEFACTS AS WELL AS PEOPLE. I WILL TRY AND SEE IF ANY TATOO DESIGNS ARE THE SAME AS THOSE ON WEAPONS AND IF THE MEANING OR PURPOSE IS KNOWN FOR TATOOS PERHAPS IT WOULD BE THE SAME ON WEAPONS?. IF ANYONE HAS ACCESS TO GOOD REFRENCE MATERIAL OR CURRENT KNOWLEGE JUMP IN AS I WILL BE STARTING FROM SCRATCH AS FAR AS REFRENCE ON TATOOS GOES. ONE OLD PICTURE OF MARQUESAN WARRIORS ONE SMALL HAND CLUB IN LIGHT COLOR HEAVY WOOD, THE KIND THAT DOSEN'T SHOW PATINA JUST WEAR AND DIRT. THE HANDLE OF A STRANGE CLUB I SUSPECT FROM THE ISLANDS NEAR NEW GUINEA. Attached Images

29th June 2010, 06:58 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	I think it is really nice and I want one most desperately. It could well be just that the decoration fits the form. The cross as a motif is not the exclusive property of "christianity" The use of a formal structured line in decoration is common. On this club the decoration is very bold and solid which seems to suggest a cross more than just following the form. Even after colonial and missionary governance, clubs would still be carried for minor tribal dispute and as part of general attire? This link is interesting, the first man struck dead is by a gun but used as a club. Could it be that by this time anybody who was anybody wanted to be seen with a gun? even if they had no bullets? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaita_massacre Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th June 2010 at 07:16 PM. Reason: spelling!!!!!!

29th June 2010, 02:47 AM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Picked this up from an LA-area gallery over the weekend; was labeled in its previous collection as having come from the Solomon Islands. The symmetry of the incised design is impressive and well-executed, and seems to have some age to it. Club measures about 51.5 cm in OAL and weighs approximately 445 grams.

29th June 2010, 05:05 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	What does the whole thing look like? This form of club in the publications I have say they are from Malaita Island and subsequently known as Malaita clubs. The decoration is very interesting, the way it fits the form so well. The fact that the design of the decortation is so formal and strongly cruciform, it does make me wonder wether this was made after missionary contamination or should I say influence.