Spanish javelins in the New World?

[aiontay]

In my surfing of the Internet I ran across this dissertation on the Apaches and the following quote from it:
http://www.library.unt.edu/theses/op...ssertation.pdf

"War parties armed themselves with bows and arrows, lances, war clubs, leather shields, iron darts (known as chuzas), and sometimes leather body armor for both rider and mount."

It is pretty well established that early on Indians on the Plains copied Spanish practices, such as use of lances and armor for riders and horse, although multi-layered leather armor for men probably pre-dated the Spanish. My question is, is the use of chuzas, the iron darts, also Spanish? Obviously, iron darts don't pre-date the Spanish, and there is a long history of iron javelins being used in Spain going back to Hannibal and earlier. Is it possible that javelins were still being used at the start of Spanish colonization and that they continued to be used up until the 1600s, when the Apaches could have adopted them?

[celtan]

Hello Aiontay,

A chuzo is a very rudimentary weapon made from a piece of conical pointed iron inserted at the tip of a wood pole. In Spain, it was mostly used by night-watchmen and as a last ditch weapon. It is said it came to the Peninsula with Spain's swiss mercenaries, aka lasquenetes or landsknecht. (knights of the land). The word is supossedly a hispanization of the term swiss> suizo >chuzo.

Probably, they were extensively used in the american colonies, to arm militias and such. In the 1797 British attack to San Juan, PR, the Urbanos (Civilian Support) used these, although only behind the lines, never on the Battlefront.

Spanish Forts in the New World often held large quantities of chuzos, to be used to make impromptu weapons to arm the civilians, in an emergency situation.

I believe the Swiss called them "gutten tags" (good mornings) since they were used by the town militias to raise them and greet their mayors when they strode by.

I have also heard the term used to refer only to the pointed part of the weapon, and even for pointed rustic weapons made either of only metal or even wood.

It would not surprise me if the americans captured these from the europeans and adapted the metal tips for their own use, and in a different manner than originally conceived. After all, what makes Man the most successful animal of all is our ability to learn and adapt

Best

Manuel Luis

Originally Posted by aiontay

In my surfing of the Internet I ran across this dissertation on the Apaches and the following quote from it:
http://www.library.unt.edu/theses/op...ssertation.pdf

"War parties armed themselves with bows and arrows, lances, war clubs, leather shields, iron darts (known as chuzas), and sometimes leather body armor for both rider and mount."

It is pretty well established that early on Indians on the Plains copied Spanish practices, such as use of lances and armor for riders and horse, although multi-layered leather armor for men probably pre-dated the Spanish. My question is, is the use of chuzas, the iron darts, also Spanish? Obviously, iron darts don't pre-date the Spanish, and there is a long history of iron javelins being used in Spain going back to Hannibal and earlier. Is it possible that javelins were still being used at the start of Spanish colonization and that they continued to be used up until the 1600s, when the Apaches could have adopted them?

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent post Aiontay!!!! I had known of the Spanish use of the lance, here in the Southwest and that the use was adopted by American Indian tribes, but hadnt known about the javelins.

Thank you for the great data on these Manolo. Its always good to see more material on the weapons used here in the Southwest, and it seems there is far more dimension than often realized. Good words on man also, learning and adapting!!! Its what we're all about. On the frontiers one of the biggest problems was lack of gunpowder and servicable weapons, and everyone learned to make it with what was available.


All the best,
Jim