Formosa Hill Tribe Swords ( for Yuanzhumin )

[Gavin Nugent]

A very interesting similarity. The tribal piece you present almosts looks as though it could have once been a pole arm blade with the metal sleeve shortened as the polearms of this type were common amongst the Tiger troops of China and I am sure others too. There have been a number of historical images showing this.

Best

Gav.

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by freebooter

A very interesting similarity. The tribal piece you present almosts looks as though it could have once been a pole arm blade with the metal sleeve shortened as the polearms of this type were common amongst the Tiger troops of China and I am sure others too. There have been a number of historical images showing this.

Best

Gav.

That is a possibility. I like the thought

I am not sure which is more likely...
[1] Shortened Chinese polearm blade
[2] Aboriginal/Chinese smith copying Southern Chinese blade design

More research will have to be done on the blade style and the sheath, but it is hard to say whether the Aborigines forged certain style blades for themselves, or had others forge certain style blades for them... because all of the tribal groups have relatively distinct blades. The Atayal in the north has characteristically curved blades. The Amis and Paiwan in the Southeast have straight blades. The others have blades everywhere in between. Tribes from the western plains, now mainly mixed into the Hoklo and Hakka population, had the most Chinese influence. Their blades were often re-used Chinese blades, or in that style.

The Asian Ethnographic Collection of the Division of Anthropology in the American Museum of Natural History says little about the aforementioned blade that could be helpful.

Here's one from the Yang Grevot Collection. While Ping Pu artifacts are rare, they all seem to know certain similarities to Chinese blades.



Notice this one looks almost exactly like a Hu-dieh-dao blade and have a two-sided sheath, not an open-faced one as is popular with almost all Taiwanese aborigines. The person who wrote the caption for it said:

"Closely resembling Atayal and Amis knives in form, this knife also has clear Chinese characteristics and was fashioned in a transitional style typical of the Pingpu, the Austronesian people from the island's plains who were influenced by early Chinese immigrants. With time, the Pingpu were assimilated into the Taiwanese population, in contrast to the aboriginal peoples of the highlands, who continue to form a distinct indigenous group to this day."

While I can see the similarity to Amis knives, Atayal knives (pre-Japanese contact) have characteristic curve to them.




Here's something else. As a Taiwanese American knife aficionado, I've been browsing Taiwanese cutlery sites. Here's one with 2 blades that might be worth considering. If you link on the link, go to the third button down and click it, these two blades should show up further down the page.

They are the: "江南板刀" and the "江南刁刀"
Means something like "River-South-Plank-Knife" and "River-South-Wicked-Knife"

Notice how similar their handles are to the PingPu (plains) knife of the Yang-Grevot collection. Notice how the blade style is related to both the Museum and the Collection's two knives above... and the coastal regiosn south of the "river" (Yangtze) is Zheijiang, Fujian, and Guangdong. Precisely our target demographic when talking about Chinese immigration to Taiwan in this time period.

Their descriptions read something like this...
(my Chinese isn't great so I am using what I know + online translators)

[1]This knife style forms a straight line with the hilt and back of the blade (hence plank). It is mainly used the in the area south of the Yangtze River. In ancient times, Tangshan people relocated to reclaim wasteland Taiwan. This is a convenient blade for a long journey because it can do work and be fought with. The knife is made according to its use/goal. In fables, the righteous thief Liao Tianding (Taiwanese Robin Hood) uses a "short plank" like this for self defense. This knife has brass button decoration which improves grip and artistry. The scabbard is made after a careful design and doesn't loosen.

[2] It's with the broadsword of the region south of the Yangtze River that the short-sword is used with especially. It's hilt and back attachment become the ??? after inserting the object ??? therefore called tricky/wicked knife. About 1"3' long blade, short sword with(?) 22 types. For mountain climbing commoners originally. Chops bamboo ???, point of force appropriate, can puncture, chop... ??? Preferred by some ancient assassins and called the "in-the-sleeve Knife".

If only to make it more interesting and more factors... now there is this as a possible influence. Not only could this have been a shortened polearm or a locally made blade design... it could also come from or be heavily influenced by the South-River-Knife style...

[Gavin Nugent]

Here is a better example of blade profile to compare to against the Hudiedao.

Gav

[kronckew]

Thought I'd ressurect and add to this old comprehensive thread. Comments welcome.
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Recently acquired a modern traditionally made Formosan (Taiwanese) Lalaw.
71 cm. overall in scabbard.
41 cm. blade, 5.5 cm. at widest. Distal tapered spine 6 mm. at grip,3 mm. just behind the point.

Sharp, convex grind. Hammered black forge finish. Through tang peened over pommel cap.
14 cm. grip
460 grams ex. scabbard.
Scabbard & grip is stained/varnished (not opaque painted), reddish, with black stained decorations on scabbard, wood grain shows thru.
Red Bronze (Samrit?) fittings & staples. Braided/spliced (cotton?) baldric.


See also : Preliminary Classification of Taiwanese knives & swords from August 2020.

[Koxinga]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Thought I'd ressurect and add to this old comprehensive thread. Comments welcome.
================================================== ===

See also : Preliminary Classification of Taiwanese knives & swords from August 2020.

Thanks for sharing my article!
I believe the Lalaw you have there was made by Cas Hanwei, modeled after the Seediq slmadac that was used for the movie Seediq Bale:
https://www.caesars.com.sg/fixed-bla...al-sword-.html

As far as I’m aware, Northern indigenous Taiwanese Knives tended to have a single beveled chisel grind, and the hand hammered appearance is more of a modern stylistic choice. The tang is usually bent over rather than peened if it is exposed at all. The fittings should be tied to the holes on the side of the scabbard rather than the top.
The decorated scabbard is rare but not unseen in northern blades.

Hopefully this was helpful

[JeffS]

An antique of that style recently sold at auction (Tully's, described as a Moro barong). I have seen and admired new Atayal blades like yours but had not, until this auction, seen what it was modeled after - with the distinct handle shape and red/black color scheme and designs. I'm still gutted that someone else spotted it and outbid me.

[kronckew]

I saw that one too, went for more money than i could afford.

[Ian]

I saw that lot also and actually placed a bid. I was outbid nearly fourfold by the winner. I think one of the other items, what may have been a gold decorated khoummya with rhino hilt, drew the high bid.

I believe the Taiwan knife is from one of the Pingpu clans and dated to the 19th C. A rare and very nice transitional example to the more sinocized versions of the late 19th and 20th C. BTW, I think kronckew's post above is also in the Pingpu style of the 19th C. For more information, search for "Pingpu knife Taiwan."

Win some/lose some.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Ian

... I think kronckew's post above is also in the Pingpu style of the 19th C. For more information, search for "Pingpu knife Taiwan."
...

I searched, found a few examples of pingpu knives with red & decorated scabbards similar to my Hanwei one, also noted that not all were chisel ground, tho the convex edge and hammer finish are more modern interpretations. I might move the baldric to the 4 holes in the back at some point. I just acquired a set of 'south american' knives, , on their way here. They are touristy and were very cheap , but thought they might fit next to the pingu/hanwei lalaw one. Better'n a poke in the eye with a sharp stick tho.

Was more curious about the clip point knife. the sword one looks like the blade might need reseating. I gather these were postwar for US troops on leave. will be interesting to see if the blades are any good. Still, while not exactly common here, I saw a duplicate of the sword at a different auction. That guy on the grips with the spiky hat gets around a bit.

[kronckew]

Items above arrived today. Clip point knife is a POS - Piece of sh... - er, junk. 1mm steel blade.not a hint of sharpening or bevel. will go in the oops box in the outside store room later.

Sword has an 18in. 4mm thick, 1.25 in. wide. Good part is it's flat left side, chisel grind on the right, and sort of sharp. been rode hard and put away wet as my BIL woulda said on his cattle ranch.blade tang had moved out of the handle a bit, I was gonna pull it out all the way & get some sticky stuff in the hole, gave it a tap on the table with the pommel, to see it it'd move in further, it went in all the way and I can't pull it out, so I'll leave well enough alone. bolster is tight again up against the tang shoulders. Cleaned loose red rust off the flat side of the blade & a few spots on the other. Simply carved Scabbard is coloured mahogany colour & is carved and closed both sides has a small loop of brownish cord and a two holed toggle, for a belt suspension... can't afford (or find) a real antique one yet, so it'll do for now.