Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11th December 2009, 09:27 AM   #1
jonng
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 41
Default Kerises in European Museums

I'm just wondering if fellow collectors can share with us what's on display at the museums near their home, especially those in Europe. I saw these two kerises on the internet ( from The King's Kunstkammer- East Indian Chamber/ The National Museum of Denmark) just a moment ago and wonder if anyone has close up photos of them. They are from " Bantam, Western Java, Before 1674" . If you see these blades without their hilt in an antique shop, would you guess they were pre- 1674?
Attached Images
  

Last edited by jonng; 11th December 2009 at 09:39 AM.
jonng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2009, 10:42 AM   #2
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben
Posts: 460
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonng
... If you see these blades without their hilt in an antique shop, would you guess they were pre- 1674?
Hullo everybody

.... probably, as they conform to a Soenda protocol, which is more 'archaic' than either those of either Djawa or Bali. Also, as by 1678 there were not many Soenda kerises being made, if at all.

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2009, 11:26 AM   #3
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonng
.. I saw these two kerises on the internet ( from The King's Kunstkammer- East Indian Chamber/ The National Museum of Denmark) just a moment ago and wonder if anyone has close up photos of them. They are from " Bantam, Western Java, Before 1674" . If you see these blades without their hilt in an antique shop, would you guess they were pre- 1674?
Hi Jon.. these are Banten kerises, however putting an age to it have always been difficult.. with the size of these pics, it would be virtually impossible.. However, closely looking at these blades with a magnified may help.. Btw, these kerises are featured in Karsten Sejr Jensen's Krisdisk, Chapter 2.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2009, 11:29 AM   #4
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,881
Default

Following the implosion of Majapahit, the Majapahit craftsmen, including keris makers, moved east into Blambangan and Bali, from Blambangan some of these craftsmen then moved west to Banten.

This is the reason that keris with attributions of Blambangan, Bali, and Banten all bear similarities in their style.

Many years prior to this, when Majapahit was still a powerful political entity there had been an exodus of metal workers and smiths from Pajajaran in Sunda to Majapahit, by the time the smiths moved back to West Jawa again, the art of the keris had already been virtually finished in West Jawa for a lengthy period, but it began again when the craftsmen moved back from Blambangan.

What we see in 17th century keris from West Jawa is not a Sundanese style, but rather the style of Majapahit , which moved from Majapahit into Blambangan, Bali, and West Jawa. Later, this same style resurfaced in the Surakarta keris.


To answer your question as to whether I could guess the age of these keris if I encountered them accidentally.

Very probably not, Jonng. Very probably not.

I have two keris which supposedly came to Holland prior to 1800. There is no documentary evidence to support this, but the man I bought them from could track them through his family, and although I am relying on his story, it was well founded enough to convince me. I am not easy to convince.

In any case, both these keris look as if they came off the workbench last week.

Where a keris has been removed from its place of origin and has been preserved free of rust and ritual washings, it is virtually impossible to estimate its age.

Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 11th December 2009 at 11:39 AM.
A. G. Maisey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2009, 12:24 PM   #5
sirek
Member
 
sirek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 169
Arrow

on this site:

http://www.volkenkunde.nl/zoek_colle...chfor1=krissen

( press the button: LICHTBAK )

you see a part of the Collection from:
Rijksmuseum voor Volkenkunde in the Netherlands ( Leiden )

(The description is not comprehensive, but still gives a good impression off what they have in their collection
sirek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2009, 12:39 PM   #6
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,246
Default

The provenience from Banten is also possibly just the place where they have been obtained. Banten was the last trade station of Denmark on Java, closed 1682.

Last edited by Gustav; 11th December 2009 at 11:25 PM.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.