New Arrival / comments wanted

danny1976 · 10th December 2009, 08:14 PM

Hi There ,

Today i did recieved this keris , i hope u guy,s can help me with your,e comments so i can learn

It,s a small keris total lengt 36 cm . the hilt is from hippo and the origin is probally malaysia .
The blade is in not washed condition and i think it,s pamor untu walang.

It fit,s good in the scabbard.

all comments are welcome on this one .

Regards,

Danny

danny1976 · 10th December 2009, 08:25 PM

Some more photo,s .

Sorry that the are so big.

Rick · 10th December 2009, 08:40 PM

Is the gonjo missing ?

danny1976 · 10th December 2009, 08:52 PM

That,s a good quistion...

I think it was ment to be like this.

asomotif · 10th December 2009, 09:20 PM

Take a look at the peksi. that might tell you if a ganja is missing.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2009, 10:17 PM

How do we identify the hilt material as hippo ivory?

Is there documented evidence of trade in hippo ivory between Malaysia and the regions where hippo are found?

These are serious questions. I simply do not know the answers.

danny1976 · 10th December 2009, 10:26 PM

Okey let,s say the hilt is no hippo . someone has a idea what it could be than ?

Mr Maisy . do you have a opinion over the blade ?

Ganja iras or..?

Gustav · 10th December 2009, 10:31 PM

Hippo-ivory often (always?) has a fine line of small dots, dense structure and gets not so dark with time. This hilt has something like this line of dots, at the base it turned to a crack, but visible on the head and the inner side(and looks a little bit strange).

The source may be the bugis trade with East Africa.

I suppose, the blade has lost the gonjo.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2009, 10:39 PM

Re the hilt Danny, I do not have any idea what it might be. If you have followed our hilt material guessing games you will understand that it can sometimes be pretty difficult to say with any certainty what material a hilt might be from. More often than not I don't get involved in these guessing games.

Re the blade, from the photos I don't think that this is a gonjo iras blade.The proportion seems wrong for gonjo iras, and in a gonjo iras blade the gonjo is usually indicated by a line in the place where we would normally find a joint.

If you remove the hilt and have a look at the tang (pesi) you may be able to gain some indication as to whether a gonjo was ever fitted, or not, but even this inspection may not provide positive evidence one way or the other. If you find a slightly larger diameter in the tang immediately above the blade base, it is very probable that a gonjo was once fitted that has now been lost.However, the absence of this increased diameter is no gaurantee that a gonjo was never fitted.

A better indication might be to look at the width of the blade base. When you remove the hilt, I suggest that you post a photo looking down directly onto the blade base.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2009, 10:40 PM

Thanks Gustav.

danny1976 · 10th December 2009, 11:21 PM

Thanks gustav for the explain on hipo hilts. I think it still will be a quistion if this hilt is hippo or not?

Mr Maisi.

I will make photo,s this weekend wihout the hilt.

How about the pamor and the origin , malay ?

Sajen · 11th December 2009, 03:22 AM

Danny and Gustav are correct, the hilt is very old hippo ivory. Tomorrow I will show a other hilt and how you can indicate hippo ivory, Gustav give already the right direction. Lines with small black dots is the best sign for hippo ivory.

sajen

Gustav · 11th December 2009, 02:09 PM

A good thread about hilt ivory: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=hippo+ivory

David · 11th December 2009, 04:52 PM

I am in agreement that the gonjo on this keris is indeed missing.

Alam Shah · 11th December 2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I am in agreement that the gonjo on this keris is indeed missing.

Ditto that.. 'ganja hilang' (missing ganja) category..

Nice hilt, the pendokok (hilt ring), not a form commonly associated with Peninsular Malay piece.. the pamor, using malay pamor name, is gigi yu (shark teeth).

danny1976 · 11th December 2009, 05:10 PM

Guys , here some photo,s of the peksi.

If the ganja is lost or removed it happend a long time ago , there is no diffrence in collor on the peksi and the peksi has the same collor tone as the blade.

Any body has a idea for the age from the blade.

Sajen · 11th December 2009, 07:15 PM

Here a other hilt from hippo ivory, the line with the black dots is clearly to seen.

Rick · 11th December 2009, 07:27 PM

And on Danny's .

danny1976 · 11th December 2009, 08:08 PM

You guys are all hilt freaks !!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all the input so far !

A. G. Maisey · 11th December 2009, 11:20 PM

Thanks for the additional pics, Danny.

Yes, I am of the opinion that the gonjo is missing from this blade.

As for hilt material, I'm sorry but my experience in this area is inadequate to permit positive identification, most especially from photos.

10th December 2009, 08:14 PM	#1
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	New Arrival / comments wanted Hi There , Today i did recieved this keris , i hope u guy,s can help me with your,e comments so i can learn It,s a small keris total lengt 36 cm . the hilt is from hippo and the origin is probally malaysia . The blade is in not washed condition and i think it,s pamor untu walang. It fit,s good in the scabbard. all comments are welcome on this one . Regards, Danny Attached Images

10th December 2009, 08:25 PM	#2
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Some more photo,s . Sorry that the are so big. Attached Images

11th December 2009, 05:10 PM	#16
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Guys , here some photo,s of the peksi. If the ganja is lost or removed it happend a long time ago , there is no diffrence in collor on the peksi and the peksi has the same collor tone as the blade. Any body has a idea for the age from the blade. Attached Images

11th December 2009, 07:15 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Here a other hilt from hippo ivory, the line with the black dots is clearly to seen. Attached Images

11th December 2009, 07:27 PM	#18
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	And on Danny's . Attached Images

10th December 2009, 08:40 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Is the gonjo missing ?

10th December 2009, 08:52 PM	#4
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	That,s a good quistion... I think it was ment to be like this.

10th December 2009, 09:20 PM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Take a look at the peksi. that might tell you if a ganja is missing.

10th December 2009, 10:17 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	How do we identify the hilt material as hippo ivory? Is there documented evidence of trade in hippo ivory between Malaysia and the regions where hippo are found? These are serious questions. I simply do not know the answers.

10th December 2009, 10:26 PM	#7
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Okey let,s say the hilt is no hippo . someone has a idea what it could be than ? Mr Maisy . do you have a opinion over the blade ? Ganja iras or..?

10th December 2009, 10:31 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Hippo-ivory often (always?) has a fine line of small dots, dense structure and gets not so dark with time. This hilt has something like this line of dots, at the base it turned to a crack, but visible on the head and the inner side(and looks a little bit strange). The source may be the bugis trade with East Africa. I suppose, the blade has lost the gonjo.

10th December 2009, 10:39 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Re the hilt Danny, I do not have any idea what it might be. If you have followed our hilt material guessing games you will understand that it can sometimes be pretty difficult to say with any certainty what material a hilt might be from. More often than not I don't get involved in these guessing games. Re the blade, from the photos I don't think that this is a gonjo iras blade.The proportion seems wrong for gonjo iras, and in a gonjo iras blade the gonjo is usually indicated by a line in the place where we would normally find a joint. If you remove the hilt and have a look at the tang (pesi) you may be able to gain some indication as to whether a gonjo was ever fitted, or not, but even this inspection may not provide positive evidence one way or the other. If you find a slightly larger diameter in the tang immediately above the blade base, it is very probable that a gonjo was once fitted that has now been lost.However, the absence of this increased diameter is no gaurantee that a gonjo was never fitted. A better indication might be to look at the width of the blade base. When you remove the hilt, I suggest that you post a photo looking down directly onto the blade base.

10th December 2009, 10:40 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Thanks Gustav.

10th December 2009, 11:21 PM	#11
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Thanks gustav for the explain on hipo hilts. I think it still will be a quistion if this hilt is hippo or not? Mr Maisi. I will make photo,s this weekend wihout the hilt. How about the pamor and the origin , malay ?

11th December 2009, 03:22 AM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Danny and Gustav are correct, the hilt is very old hippo ivory. Tomorrow I will show a other hilt and how you can indicate hippo ivory, Gustav give already the right direction. Lines with small black dots is the best sign for hippo ivory. sajen

11th December 2009, 02:09 PM	#13
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	A good thread about hilt ivory: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=hippo+ivory

11th December 2009, 04:52 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I am in agreement that the gonjo on this keris is indeed missing.

11th December 2009, 08:08 PM	#19
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	You guys are all hilt freaks !!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all the input so far !

11th December 2009, 11:20 PM	#20
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Thanks for the additional pics, Danny. Yes, I am of the opinion that the gonjo is missing from this blade. As for hilt material, I'm sorry but my experience in this area is inadequate to permit positive identification, most especially from photos.