Is this what I think it is?

josh stout · 14th July 2009, 07:19 PM

Some members here have assured me that the late Chinese pieces that look like fakes can indeed be genuine. So I have been keeping a lookout for likely candidates.

Hear is a chang jian that I take to be Republican. The fittings have been artificially aged, but there is also genuine age. The fake patina is being worn off and replaced with the look of true age

It has a 69 cm blade and 17 cm handle and weighs about 900g.

Apart from the evidence that it is an antique reproduction of an older antique, there are some strange things. The suspension fittings are not of a type that I have seen before.

When the blade arrived it was all red rust. Now that I am cleaning it, a pattern that seems like horse teeth is showing at the edges.

It is not very obvious though, the pattern is not very strong, and is maybe only on one side. The blade itself is similar to some village things. The ridge down the middle is not perfectly straight, and the fullers wander a bit. This is not due to age, but was the original shape of the blade. There is also a small thin line near the tip that looks like a small forge flaw.

Did village smiths make such nice pattern welds for the tourist trade?
Josh

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...DSC_0690-1.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0691.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0692.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0693.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0695.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0699.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0700.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0701.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0704.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0705.jpg

KuKulzA28 · 17th July 2009, 09:51 PM

I don't know enough about Chinese weaponry to comment, but I think this thread is bump worthy...
I hope some of the Chinese woo chi gurus comment soon!

VANDOO · 18th July 2009, 05:14 AM

NOT MY FIELD AT ALL BUT I WILL GIVE SOME OBSERVATIONS ANYWAY AS NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO WANT TO JUMP IN.

THE FITTINGS DON'T LOOK VERY WELL MADE FROM WHAT LITTLE I CAN TELL FROM YOUR PICTURES. SOMETIMES OLD BLADES AND PARTS ARE USED TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS TOGETHER TO SELL SO YOU CAN'T JUST IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY UNLESS YOU ARE A PURIST AND ONLY WANT COMPLETE ORIGINAL OLD ITEMS NOT A COLLECTION OF PARTS. SOME SWORDS DO INCORPORATE VARIOUS PARTS DURING THER WORKING LIFE AND SOME ARE PUT TOGETHER BY AMATURES AS WELL AS PROFESSIONAL SWORD DEALERS. BECAUSE OF THE SILLY RESTRICTIONS IN CHINA AND OTHER PLACES THAT YOU CAN'T SELL ANYTHING OVER 100 YEARS OLD EVEN IF THEY ARE AS COMMON AS ROCKS ON THE BEACH IN YOUR COUNTRY SELLERS HAVE TO ADAPT. ONE WAY TO GET AROUND THESE LAWS WOULD BE TO PUT A FEW NEW FITTINGS WITH A OLD PIECE OR BLADE OR TO USE OLD FITTINGS WITH A NEW BLADE.

I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TAKE SOME BETTER PICTURES OF THE OLD LOOKING FITTINGS IF THERE ARE ANY AND ONE CLOSEUP OF THOSE OBVIOUSLY NEW ONES FOR COMPARASON. TAKE SEVERAL GOOD CLOSE UP PICTURES OF THE BLADE AND THE FEATURES YOU WERE DESCRIBING AND PERHAPS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT THESE THINGS WILL OFFER AN OPINION. AT PRESENT THESE PICTURES GIVE AN EXPERT LITTLE TO GO ON AND THEY ARE NOT EASILY LOOKED AT AS ATTACHMENTS.

14th July 2009, 07:19 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Is this what I think it is? Some members here have assured me that the late Chinese pieces that look like fakes can indeed be genuine. So I have been keeping a lookout for likely candidates. Hear is a chang jian that I take to be Republican. The fittings have been artificially aged, but there is also genuine age. The fake patina is being worn off and replaced with the look of true age It has a 69 cm blade and 17 cm handle and weighs about 900g. Apart from the evidence that it is an antique reproduction of an older antique, there are some strange things. The suspension fittings are not of a type that I have seen before. When the blade arrived it was all red rust. Now that I am cleaning it, a pattern that seems like horse teeth is showing at the edges. It is not very obvious though, the pattern is not very strong, and is maybe only on one side. The blade itself is similar to some village things. The ridge down the middle is not perfectly straight, and the fullers wander a bit. This is not due to age, but was the original shape of the blade. There is also a small thin line near the tip that looks like a small forge flaw. Did village smiths make such nice pattern welds for the tourist trade? Josh http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...DSC_0690-1.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0691.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0692.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0693.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0695.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0699.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0700.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0701.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0704.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...i/DSC_0705.jpg

17th July 2009, 09:51 PM	#2
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I don't know enough about Chinese weaponry to comment, but I think this thread is bump worthy... I hope some of the Chinese woo chi gurus comment soon!

18th July 2009, 05:14 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NOT MY FIELD AT ALL BUT I WILL GIVE SOME OBSERVATIONS ANYWAY AS NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO WANT TO JUMP IN. THE FITTINGS DON'T LOOK VERY WELL MADE FROM WHAT LITTLE I CAN TELL FROM YOUR PICTURES. SOMETIMES OLD BLADES AND PARTS ARE USED TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS TOGETHER TO SELL SO YOU CAN'T JUST IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY UNLESS YOU ARE A PURIST AND ONLY WANT COMPLETE ORIGINAL OLD ITEMS NOT A COLLECTION OF PARTS. SOME SWORDS DO INCORPORATE VARIOUS PARTS DURING THER WORKING LIFE AND SOME ARE PUT TOGETHER BY AMATURES AS WELL AS PROFESSIONAL SWORD DEALERS. BECAUSE OF THE SILLY RESTRICTIONS IN CHINA AND OTHER PLACES THAT YOU CAN'T SELL ANYTHING OVER 100 YEARS OLD EVEN IF THEY ARE AS COMMON AS ROCKS ON THE BEACH IN YOUR COUNTRY SELLERS HAVE TO ADAPT. ONE WAY TO GET AROUND THESE LAWS WOULD BE TO PUT A FEW NEW FITTINGS WITH A OLD PIECE OR BLADE OR TO USE OLD FITTINGS WITH A NEW BLADE. I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TAKE SOME BETTER PICTURES OF THE OLD LOOKING FITTINGS IF THERE ARE ANY AND ONE CLOSEUP OF THOSE OBVIOUSLY NEW ONES FOR COMPARASON. TAKE SEVERAL GOOD CLOSE UP PICTURES OF THE BLADE AND THE FEATURES YOU WERE DESCRIBING AND PERHAPS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT THESE THINGS WILL OFFER AN OPINION. AT PRESENT THESE PICTURES GIVE AN EXPERT LITTLE TO GO ON AND THEY ARE NOT EASILY LOOKED AT AS ATTACHMENTS.