Is this a Rhino Horn handle? (Yataghan)

Hatumesh · 9th July 2009, 04:29 PM

Hi,
Can anyone tell me anything about this Yataghan?
I'm especially interested in the pommel - what's it made of? Is it rhino horn?
Is there a date in the inscription? Can you please translate?
Thank you.

Lew · 9th July 2009, 04:38 PM

My guess is no. Rhino horn usually does not exhibit any swirl effects so I think this is some type of buffalo horn or other animal.

Hatumesh · 9th July 2009, 04:42 PM

Thank you, LOUIEBLADES.

Are Yataghans with rhino/buffalo horn pommels rarer then those with walrus ivory pommels (or metal pommels)?

Oriental-Arms · 9th July 2009, 07:35 PM

Hi Gadi

I will be surprised if this is a Rhino horn handle. Usually on this type of Yataghans it is not. I would rather suggest a buffalo horn (its tends to develope with age a fibrous structure look which is sometimes mistaken with rhino horn). A closer examination is required. If you bring it to the meeting of our society next Thursday I will gladly look at it.

Yataghans with rhino horn handle are mostly coming from North Africa, and they have a very specific shape of lobbed pommel ears.

This Yataghan is dated to 1227, 1812 in the Gregorian calendar.

Hatumesh · 9th July 2009, 08:05 PM

Thank you, Artzi, for the detailed answer.
I'll bring the sword with me to the society meeting (I'll call you tomorrow anyhow).

And for all you people out there, when we say 'society meeting', we refer to the quarterly meeting of the "Israeli society of ethnographic and historical weapons". Since I'm new in this area, I've been only to one (next week will be my second) and let me tell you that it was rather amazing. People exhibited their collections and offered it for sale or swap, there were two lectures by two of our learned members, dinner, auction sale, and a lot of information exchange. There's probably such a local society most everywhere.

Zifir · 10th July 2009, 12:53 AM

The first inscription is
Tevekkeltü alallah : I put my trust in Allah

The second one is:

Sahib Hüseyin Ağa : Owner Hüseyin Agha

Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir

These are the names of Eshab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog.

The third one is:

1238 (1822-1823) Amel-i Abdullah (Made by Abdullah)

Hatumesh · 10th July 2009, 08:30 AM

Zifir, you so very helpful!
I was wondering what is the "Eshab-i Keyf" and googled it but all results were in Turkish. Then I looked up "seven sleepers" in the Wikipedia and got the whole story of the sleepers and the cave (including the dog...). Amazing how the legend crosses cultures.
I have 2 more entries in this forum, named "Pls comment on this Yataghan" and "Plas help id this Yataghan". I would very much appreciate (considering you have the time, energy and will for it) if you would translate the writings on those two Yataghans as well.
Thank you so much again.
Gadi

Zifir · 13th July 2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatumesh

Zifir, you so very helpful!
I was wondering what is the "Eshab-i Keyf" and googled it but all results were in Turkish. Then I looked up "seven sleepers" in the Wikipedia and got the whole story of the sleepers and the cave (including the dog...). Amazing how the legend crosses cultures.
I have 2 more entries in this forum, named "Pls comment on this Yataghan" and "Plas help id this Yataghan". I would very much appreciate (considering you have the time, energy and will for it) if you would translate the writings on those two Yataghans as well.
Thank you so much again.
Gadi

You are very welcome Gadi. I looked at other yatagans that you posted. For the Balkan one, I don't have anything to add Dom's translation, I could not make anything out of the second line. For the other one a clearer picture might help, maybe

9th July 2009, 04:29 PM	#1
Hatumesh Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel Posts: 24	Is this a Rhino Horn handle? (Yataghan) Hi, Can anyone tell me anything about this Yataghan? I'm especially interested in the pommel - what's it made of? Is it rhino horn? Is there a date in the inscription? Can you please translate? Thank you. Attached Images

9th July 2009, 07:35 PM	#4
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Rhino horn handle Hi Gadi I will be surprised if this is a Rhino horn handle. Usually on this type of Yataghans it is not. I would rather suggest a buffalo horn (its tends to develope with age a fibrous structure look which is sometimes mistaken with rhino horn). A closer examination is required. If you bring it to the meeting of our society next Thursday I will gladly look at it. Yataghans with rhino horn handle are mostly coming from North Africa, and they have a very specific shape of lobbed pommel ears. This Yataghan is dated to 1227, 1812 in the Gregorian calendar.

10th July 2009, 12:53 AM	#6
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	The first inscription is Tevekkeltü alallah : I put my trust in Allah The second one is: Sahib Hüseyin Ağa : Owner Hüseyin Agha Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir These are the names of Eshab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog. The third one is: 1238 (1822-1823) Amel-i Abdullah (Made by Abdullah) Attached Images

9th July 2009, 04:38 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	My guess is no. Rhino horn usually does not exhibit any swirl effects so I think this is some type of buffalo horn or other animal.

9th July 2009, 04:42 PM	#3
Hatumesh Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel Posts: 24	Thank you, LOUIEBLADES. Are Yataghans with rhino/buffalo horn pommels rarer then those with walrus ivory pommels (or metal pommels)?

9th July 2009, 08:05 PM	#5
Hatumesh Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel Posts: 24	Thank you, Artzi, for the detailed answer. I'll bring the sword with me to the society meeting (I'll call you tomorrow anyhow). And for all you people out there, when we say 'society meeting', we refer to the quarterly meeting of the "Israeli society of ethnographic and historical weapons". Since I'm new in this area, I've been only to one (next week will be my second) and let me tell you that it was rather amazing. People exhibited their collections and offered it for sale or swap, there were two lectures by two of our learned members, dinner, auction sale, and a lot of information exchange. There's probably such a local society most everywhere.

10th July 2009, 08:30 AM	#7
Hatumesh Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel Posts: 24	Zifir, you so very helpful! I was wondering what is the "Eshab-i Keyf" and googled it but all results were in Turkish. Then I looked up "seven sleepers" in the Wikipedia and got the whole story of the sleepers and the cave (including the dog...). Amazing how the legend crosses cultures. I have 2 more entries in this forum, named "Pls comment on this Yataghan" and "Plas help id this Yataghan". I would very much appreciate (considering you have the time, energy and will for it) if you would translate the writings on those two Yataghans as well. Thank you so much again. Gadi