High-resolution pics at Cornell's website

migueldiaz · 30th June 2009, 03:35 AM

Hello all,

I recently stumbled upon Cornell University's 'Southeast Asia Visions' project.

I also noticed that Mark has referred to this site before. Thanks Mark!

Indeed there's a lot of materials in there worth checking out.

What follows would be cropped and resized images of some of the pics I've found. The original images are typically more than 1 mb each -- perfect if you'd like to zoom in on a particular detail.

Here's some Moro-related pics:

migueldiaz · 30th June 2009, 03:37 AM

I've concentrated my search on Philippine images, but I can't help notice this nice drawing of a Dyak fight ...

migueldiaz · 30th June 2009, 03:40 AM

There's also a lot of materials on lumad (non-Moro Mindanao) tribes ...

migueldiaz · 30th June 2009, 03:41 AM

I think this guy is from Luzon:

migueldiaz · 30th June 2009, 03:43 AM

Some of these we've seen before. But if you check out the original pics at the website, you can get to see a lot more details.

migueldiaz · 30th June 2009, 03:46 AM

Tingguians [teeng-GHEE-ans] of northern Luzon:

migueldiaz · 30th June 2009, 03:49 AM

Perhaps the greatest number of materials on the website is with regard to the period of the American colonial rule in the Philippines.

Here's some pics pertaining to the Philippine-American War:

KuKulzA28 · 30th June 2009, 04:44 AM

thanks for posting them!

I must say, it is interesting to note that almost all warriors carried spears. I feel like in collecting, spears are often underrated when compared to swords, but that spears were probably the main weapon for most warriors around the world, and that many traditional fighting styles emphasized it accordingly...
if knives or clubs took priority over empty hand training... and axes and swords took priority over little weapons... and spears and missiles took priority over swords and axes.... one can see how much modern-day martial arts have changed from their ancestors... emphasizing smaller blades and hand to hand combat more than marksmanship, spears, and swords...

and, while it may seen dumb to you guys, but I find it hilarious to add my own little captions to these old photos...
especially this one you showed:

Man: I am a great warrior! Step any closer and I'll stick you with my spear and chop your head off! Don't you look at my woman like that....
Woman: Ugh, ya know he was a handsome young headhunter 10 years ago... I fell in love... now I'd rather he wash some dishes... *sigh* men and their sharp toys... tried to tell him to either buy a rifle off an American GI or start doing household chores!

Battara · 30th June 2009, 05:18 AM

NIce find and pics - good work. Some of these are in old National Geographics and some in old books. Some never seen before......

David · 30th June 2009, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

I think this guy is from Luzon:

Great pics Miguel. I think that while this guy in #4 might well be in Luzon, he certainly isn't from there. I believe this is Paul la Gironiere, a well know French adventurer and writer.

http://en.wikipilipinas.org/index.ph...e_la_Gironiere

Battara · 30th June 2009, 05:32 AM

Thank you David - I was scratching my head on that one and it reminded me of AFrica.

migueldiaz · 1st July 2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Great pics Miguel. I think that while this guy in #4 might well be in Luzon, he certainly isn't from there. I believe this is Paul la Gironiere, a well know French adventurer and writer.

http://en.wikipilipinas.org/index.ph...e_la_Gironiere

David, oui, but of course!

No wonder he doesn't look 'Pinoy' [Filipino]

KuKulzA28/ Jose, thanks for the comments!

migueldiaz · 1st July 2009, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

I must say, it is interesting to note that almost all warriors carried spears. I feel like in collecting, spears are often underrated when compared to swords, but that spears were probably the main weapon for most warriors around the world, and that many traditional fighting styles emphasized it accordingly... if knives or clubs took priority over empty hand training... and axes and swords took priority over little weapons... and spears and missiles took priority over swords and axes.... one can see how much modern-day martial arts have changed from their ancestors... emphasizing smaller blades and hand to hand combat more than marksmanship, spears, and swords...

I definitely agree that that in any battle at any time period, you start with your longest-range weapon (whether ICBM, plane-delivered bombs, artillery, rifle, catapult, arrows, rocks, spears, grenade, etc.), before you employ your katana, barong, head axe, pistol etc. for the more intimate phase of your 'bonding' with the other fellow.

So I guess it's more an 'and' situation rather than an 'or'?

Sikh_soldier · 1st July 2009, 12:36 PM

Wow the Kalinga police are in good shape!

Imagine having them on the beat!

VANDOO · 10th July 2009, 06:22 PM

SORRY TO COME IN SO LATE ON THIS ONE BUT HAVE BEEN BUSY AND AM NOW PLAYING CATCH UP. THANKS!! THESE ARE GREAT PICTURES AND SEVERAL I HAD NOT SEEN.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE FIRST TWO PICTURES IT IS OF THE BATTLE OF BUD DAJO. THE TROOPS ARE STANDING BY WHAT LOOKS LIKE A WALL FULL OF HUMAN SKULLS. IS THIS THE SIDE OF SOME SORT OF FORTIFICATION OR SACRED PLACE WHERE THE HEADS OF ENEMYS WERE DISPLAYED AT THE VILLAGE. I HAVE SEEN THIS SORT OF THING IN MANY HEADHUNTING SOCIETYS BUT NOT FROM THE PHILIPPINES. SO MY QUESTION IS DID THE NATIVE PHILIPINOS HAVE THESE SKULL DISPLAYS IN THIER VILLAGES OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE.? THE FALLEN WARRIOR IN THE PICTURE IS RECENTLY KILLED IN THE BATTLE SO THE SKULLS WERE ALREADY THERE AND NOT FROM THE BATTLE AND IT IS UNLIKELY THE TROOPS MADE THE DISPLAY.

Bill · 10th July 2009, 07:43 PM

The fellow with the katipunan dagger is Gen. Tomas Mascardo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomas_Mascardo
looks very similar to the dagger, once posted but now the photos are gone, of General Leandro Fullon.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002102.html
perhaps Bill Marsh has a opinion

Nonoy Tan · 11th July 2009, 01:59 AM

The first 2 photographs under the heading "Tingguian" are actually Ilongots (aka Ilbilao or Bugkalot). The Tinguian/Tingguian or Itneg inhabit Abra (of Northern Luzon); while the Ilongot used to inhabit areas presently called Isabela, Quirino, Nueva Ecija and Nueva Vizcaya (Northeast Luzon).

The Ilongot men in the photographs are wearing the dance attire (i.e. ornamentation blades with scabbards and dance shields).

In the old days (i.e. when those old photos were taken), it was easy for non-locals to misidentify or distinguish between the various Northern Luzon peoples.

Dimasalang · 11th July 2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

SORRY TO COME IN SO LATE ON THIS ONE BUT HAVE BEEN BUSY AND AM NOW PLAYING CATCH UP. THANKS!! THESE ARE GREAT PICTURES AND SEVERAL I HAD NOT SEEN.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE FIRST TWO PICTURES IT IS OF THE BATTLE OF BUD DAJO. THE TROOPS ARE STANDING BY WHAT LOOKS LIKE A WALL FULL OF HUMAN SKULLS. IS THIS THE SIDE OF SOME SORT OF FORTIFICATION OR SACRED PLACE WHERE THE HEADS OF ENEMYS WERE DISPLAYED AT THE VILLAGE. I HAVE SEEN THIS SORT OF THING IN MANY HEADHUNTING SOCIETYS BUT NOT FROM THE PHILIPPINES. SO MY QUESTION IS DID THE NATIVE PHILIPINOS HAVE THESE SKULL DISPLAYS IN THIER VILLAGES OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE.? THE FALLEN WARRIOR IN THE PICTURE IS RECENTLY KILLED IN THE BATTLE SO THE SKULLS WERE ALREADY THERE AND NOT FROM THE BATTLE AND IT IS UNLIKELY THE TROOPS MADE THE DISPLAY.

Vandoo, I have looked in to this picture in the past. From what I understand, the photo of the skulls were taken at the 'second' Battle of Bud Dajo(Dec 1911). The skulls were left over from the 'first' Battle of Dajo(March 1906). Bud Dajo is an extinct volcano, and the battles took place inside the crater. After the 1st initial battle ended, the Americans did not bury the dead...they threw the bodies in to the trench and they were left uncovered to rot...which sparked controversy and became a famous photograph in all US newspaper that same year due to some of the dead being woman and children. Here is the photo I am talking about from the 1st Battle of Bud Dajo 1906(estimated at 900 Moros killed):

The skulls in the 1st post are remnants of these dead bodies. It is unsure of who staked them(but I have a feeling the Americans wouldn't touch them).

migueldiaz · 11th July 2009, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

Vandoo, I have looked in to this picture in the past. From what I understand, the photo of the skulls were taken at the 'second' Battle of Bud Dajo(Dec 1911). The skulls were left over from the 'first' Battle of Dajo(March 1906). Bud Dajo is an extinct volcano, and the battles took place inside the crater. After the 1st initial battle ended, the Americans did not bury the dead...they threw the bodies in to the trench and they were left uncovered to rot...which sparked controversy and became a famous photograph in all US newspaper that same year due to some of the dead being woman and children. Here is the photo I am talking about from the 1st Battle of Bud Dajo 1906(estimated at 900 Moros killed):

The skulls in the 1st post are remnants of these dead bodies. It is unsure of who staked them(but I have a feeling the Americans wouldn't touch them).

Hi Vandoo,

As Dimasalang mentioned, the skulls are from the first Bud Dajo [pronounced bood DAH-ho] battle, on March 1906.

In Robert Fulton's Moroland book (2007), he refers to this photo in the chapter, "clean the place up":

"An unanswered question about Bud Dajo is why the Tausug leaders did not send their people up to bury their dead the next day, according to Muslim tradition and belief. It is known that many witnessed the assault from nearby hills and that some went up to view the carnage – Maharajah Indanan was one – but the dead there left where they lay, in mass graves with only the thin covering of dirt on their bodies. It may have been superstition or fear, given that this place had become such a terrible abattoir. Some said the principal datus simply did not care and were glad to be rid of their recalcitrant subjects. Or it may have been seen as a way to shame and rebuke the Americans. It certainly could not have helped matters that Capt. Koehler, unwittingly or not, had immolated sixty-seven bodies in the cotta at the top of the west trail, probably unaware that he was violating Muslim proscriptions against cremation. Maybe those slain on Bud Dajo were left unburied to be angry, unappeased, and tortured souls that might someday seek revenge.

"Shortly before Scott left for the U.S., he brought up to General Bliss the fact that the dead on the hill had never been properly buried and their shallow graves were regularly disturbed by American soldiers and sailors wanting to see the battle site and return with a few choice souvenirs. Many years later, a rather macabre photograph was deposited together with the papers of General John J. Pershing in the Library of Congress. It has written across it, “Six weeks after the Battle of Dajo” (late April) and shows about a dozen American soldiers who had lined up at least twenty skulls on top of a tree trunk spanning one of the trenches. A number of those present appear to be officers. Bliss, possibly having seen the photograph and heeding Scott’s advice, gave instructions to Scott’s successor, Col. E. Z. Steever, to “clean the place up.”

Based on Fulton's recounting of the events above, it would appear then that these skulls having been photographed just merely six weeks after the battle, were from the 67 bodies burned by Capt. Koehler on the day of the battle.

Alternatively, the skulls could have come from the other 800+ dead bodies. Because from the same book, we read:

"[Right after the battle] Wood ordered Bundy to dynamite the cottas [forts], burn all remaning structures, and have the Moro cargadores [porters] bury the dead under a light of cover of dirt."

Wood wanted to the troops to return to the camp immediately right after the battle, thus the "light cover of dirt" order. And so wild animals and birds would have easily and quickly made skeletons out of the hundreds of dead bodies lying around.

PS - This book is a treasure trove of info on Moro wars. Thanks again to the person who gave me this book -- you know who you are

Dimasalang · 11th July 2009, 04:28 AM

I stand corrected! Thanks Miguel for clearing that up!

VANDOO · 11th July 2009, 06:53 AM

THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CALL IT A WAR MEMORIAL OR SOMETHING ELSE.
IF IT WAS DONE BY THE AMERICANS IT WOULD NOT BE A WAR MEMORIAL BUT IF THE MORO DID IT PERHAPS IT WAS A MEMORIAL TO THEIR FALLEN BROTHERS?
YOUR REFRENCES POINT OUT THAT IT WAS NOT DONE BECAUSE OF TRIBAL TRADITION BUT AS A RESULT OF A TERRIBLE BATTLE AND GREAT LOSS OF LIFE. BUT THE WHY IT WAS DONE AND BY WHO IS PERHAPS A MYSTERY.

IF WHAT WE SEE IS A RESULT OF THE AMERICANS CLEANING UP THE AREA I DON'T THINK THEY DID A PROPER OR RESPECTFUL JOB OF IT UNLESS THEY DID IT TO SERVE AS A WARNING TO THE MORO IN THE AREA

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD WAR BUT UNFORTUNATELY UNTIL MAN CHANGES A LOT IT WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND.

IN BORNEO THE SKULLS WERE KEPT HANGING IN THE LONGHOUSE, IN NEW GUINEA THEY WERE KEPT IN SKULL RACKS OR HANGING IN THE HOUSE, LOTS OF OTHER PLACES THEY WERE KEPT AROUND THE FRONT OR SIDES OF THE HOUSE. AZTEC'S IN AMERICA HAD MASSIVE SKULL RACKS SOME FOR SACRIFICIAL VICTIMS AND OTHERS FOR THE SKULLS OF THE BEST PLAYER IN THEIR BALL GAMES. THE PICTURE MADE ME AWARE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS HEADHUNTING IN THE PHILIPPINES BUT DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR SKULLS? A MORBID QUESTION PERHAPS BUT IT WAS A PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

migueldiaz · 11th July 2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

I stand corrected! Thanks Miguel for clearing that up!

OT: Dimasalang, in your past visits to the Phils., have you had the chance to visit Museo ng Rebolusyon [Museum of the Revolution] in Pinaglabanan? Haven't been there but I'm planning to, so I can post pics here later ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

... IF WHAT WE SEE IS A RESULT OF THE AMERICANS CLEANING UP THE AREA I DON'T THINK THEY DID A PROPER OR RESPECTFUL JOB OF IT UNLESS THEY DID IT TO SERVE AS A WARNING TO THE MORO IN THE AREA

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD WAR BUT UNFORTUNATELY UNTIL MAN CHANGES A LOT IT WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND.

...

Thanks Vandoo for the comments.

On the politics of warfare (and still referring to Fulton's chapters on Bud Dajo), we find this [April 1906] conversation between General Leonard Wood and the Sulu headmen:

"... the Sultan observed, 'There are very few people in Jolo [Sulu], and if a fight like that [i.e., Bud Dajo] occurs many times there will be no more people left in Jolo.' The Sultan then begged Wood to, in the future, let the Jolo leadership rather than American soldiers mount any such operations against the insurgents. Wood ridiculed the idea and badgered the Sultan to admit that if they had tried to take Bud Dajo, 'it would have finished all the Moros in the attacking party ... there would only monkeys be left to live in Jolo ... A great many of our people believe that all men are descended from monkeys, and they might eventually have produced another race here.' But the Sultan turned the tables, responding, 'It is more likely that human beings become monkeys, than monkeys turn into human beings.' "

Warfare is a messy business indeed.

I'll post next pics of olden Filipino headhunters displaying their skull trophies.

migueldiaz · 11th July 2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE PICTURE MADE ME AWARE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS HEADHUNTING IN THE PHILIPPINES BUT DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR SKULLS? A MORBID QUESTION PERHAPS BUT IT WAS A PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

Amongst Phil. ethnic groups, the ones I know who displayed human skulls as trophies would be the Igorots.

We've seen the pics below before, but these are clearer copies (coming from that Cornell website).

Note also that human jawbones of headhunting victims also find another use!

migueldiaz · 11th July 2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

The fellow with the katipunan dagger is Gen. Tomas Mascardo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomas_Mascardo
looks very similar to the dagger, once posted but now the photos are gone, of General Leandro Fullon. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002102.html
perhaps Bill Marsh has a opinion

Thanks, Bill. Here's the detail of Mascardo's dagger ...

Nonoy Tan · 11th July 2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

SO MY QUESTION IS DID THE NATIVE PHILIPINOS HAVE THESE SKULL DISPLAYS IN THIER VILLAGES OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE.?

If I recall correctly, several peoples of Northern Luzon (Philippines), e.g. Bontok stored the skulls at a "house" where the men regularly meet (to discuss village matters). A newly gotten head would be used during village celebrations and placed on a top of a pole.

On the other hand, the Ilongot (also of Northern Luzon) throw the head as soon at it is severed from the victim. The throwing of the head signifies a release from the "burden of life" or whatever "weighs heavy on the man's heart."

The beliefs, practice and rituals associated with headhunting (and ritual cannibalism) differ between peoples of different places in the Philippines. The above are just examples.

Thank you migueldiaz for the exemplary research work!

migueldiaz · 11th July 2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonoy Tan

On the other hand, the Ilongot (also of Northern Luzon) throw the head as soon at it is severed from the victim. The throwing of the head signifies a release from the "burden of life" or whatever "weighs heavy on the man's heart."

Nonoy, looks like you have a fine example there of an Igorot who going thru life lost his head along the way!

Shifting to Ilongots, the pics below are still from the Cornell website. Are these really Ilongots? (as sometimes, these old articles mistakenly name Filipino ethnic groups).

PS - Thanks by the way for clarifying the difference between Tingguians and Ilongots. It's the first time I understood it!

migueldiaz · 11th July 2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

IN BORNEO THE SKULLS WERE KEPT HANGING IN THE LONGHOUSE, IN NEW GUINEA THEY WERE KEPT IN SKULL RACKS OR HANGING IN THE HOUSE, LOTS OF OTHER PLACES THEY WERE KEPT AROUND THE FRONT OR SIDES OF THE HOUSE. AZTEC'S IN AMERICA HAD MASSIVE SKULL RACKS SOME FOR SACRIFICIAL VICTIMS AND OTHERS FOR THE SKULLS OF THE BEST PLAYER IN THEIR BALL GAMES. THE PICTURE MADE ME AWARE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS HEADHUNTING IN THE PHILIPPINES BUT DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR SKULLS? A MORBID QUESTION PERHAPS BUT IT WAS A PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

Vandoo, below is the text pertaining to the drawing above of a Tinguian headhunters' feast.

Nonoy, is this true that the Tingguians mix the mashed brain with the local wine, and that the skulls were crushed and the pieces given to friends as gifts?

The scene looks like it's straight from a "B" movie

so I'm just wondering whether it was a faithful account of an old practice ...

Rick · 11th July 2009, 03:17 PM

I'm surprised they didn't have a problem with Laughing Sickness in a tribe with such a ritual ..

Nonoy Tan · 12th July 2009, 04:03 AM

Hi Migueldiaz,

The story about Tingguians mixing the brain with wine may or may not be true. AFAIK, the possibility is not remote. However, I am yet to find witness accounts that could collaborate the story of Paul de la Gironiere. That I expect will not be easy to find, because the practice of ritual cannibalism have been held in secret from foreign visitors, who would therefore rely on hearse for their stories (e.g. Paul de la Gironiere). On the other hand, I have no doubt that ritual cannibalism existed in the Philippines.

The distributing of skull parts to members of the village is probably true, because there are collaborative stories. Other body parts were also taken (e.g. fingers).

The photos of the Ilongots are indeed Ilongots.

I recall reading an explanation that the "relieving of burden" as a consequence of beheading a person is experienced by the headhunter, not the victim. The headhunter went to headhunt in order to "relieve life's burdens." Nowadays, we just go to the gym for physical workout :-)

Nonoy Tan · 12th July 2009, 04:15 AM

By the way, critics of Paul de la Gironiere say that he actually did not witness the rituals he mentioned in his story; and that his story was a product of hearsay. The critics say that de la Gironiere exagerrated the scope of his explorations in order to gain the fame he wanted. Nonetheless, whether or not he actually witnessed the ritual does not necessarily mean that such ritual did not exist in the past.

30th June 2009, 03:35 AM	#1
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	High-resolution pics at Cornell's website Hello all, I recently stumbled upon Cornell University's 'Southeast Asia Visions' project. I also noticed that Mark has referred to this site before. Thanks Mark! Indeed there's a lot of materials in there worth checking out. What follows would be cropped and resized images of some of the pics I've found. The original images are typically more than 1 mb each -- perfect if you'd like to zoom in on a particular detail. Here's some Moro-related pics: Attached Images

30th June 2009, 03:37 AM	#2
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	I've concentrated my search on Philippine images, but I can't help notice this nice drawing of a Dyak fight ... Attached Images

30th June 2009, 03:40 AM	#3
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	There's also a lot of materials on lumad (non-Moro Mindanao) tribes ... Attached Images

30th June 2009, 03:43 AM	#5
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Some of these we've seen before. But if you check out the original pics at the website, you can get to see a lot more details. Attached Images

30th June 2009, 03:46 AM	#6
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Tingguians [teeng-GHEE-ans] of northern Luzon: Attached Images

30th June 2009, 03:41 AM	#4
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	I think this guy is from Luzon: Attached Images

30th June 2009, 03:49 AM	#7
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Perhaps the greatest number of materials on the website is with regard to the period of the American colonial rule in the Philippines. Here's some pics pertaining to the Philippine-American War: Attached Images

30th June 2009, 04:44 AM	#8
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	thanks for posting them! I must say, it is interesting to note that almost all warriors carried spears. I feel like in collecting, spears are often underrated when compared to swords, but that spears were probably the main weapon for most warriors around the world, and that many traditional fighting styles emphasized it accordingly... if knives or clubs took priority over empty hand training... and axes and swords took priority over little weapons... and spears and missiles took priority over swords and axes.... one can see how much modern-day martial arts have changed from their ancestors... emphasizing smaller blades and hand to hand combat more than marksmanship, spears, and swords... and, while it may seen dumb to you guys, but I find it hilarious to add my own little captions to these old photos... especially this one you showed: Man: I am a great warrior! Step any closer and I'll stick you with my spear and chop your head off! Don't you look at my woman like that.... Woman: Ugh, ya know he was a handsome young headhunter 10 years ago... I fell in love... now I'd rather he wash some dishes... sigh men and their sharp toys... tried to tell him to either buy a rifle off an American GI or start doing household chores!

30th June 2009, 05:18 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	NIce find and pics - good work. Some of these are in old National Geographics and some in old books. Some never seen before......

30th June 2009, 05:32 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Thank you David - I was scratching my head on that one and it reminded me of AFrica.

1st July 2009, 12:36 PM	#14
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Wow the Kalinga police are in good shape! Imagine having them on the beat!

10th July 2009, 06:22 PM	#15
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SORRY TO COME IN SO LATE ON THIS ONE BUT HAVE BEEN BUSY AND AM NOW PLAYING CATCH UP. THANKS!! THESE ARE GREAT PICTURES AND SEVERAL I HAD NOT SEEN. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE FIRST TWO PICTURES IT IS OF THE BATTLE OF BUD DAJO. THE TROOPS ARE STANDING BY WHAT LOOKS LIKE A WALL FULL OF HUMAN SKULLS. IS THIS THE SIDE OF SOME SORT OF FORTIFICATION OR SACRED PLACE WHERE THE HEADS OF ENEMYS WERE DISPLAYED AT THE VILLAGE. I HAVE SEEN THIS SORT OF THING IN MANY HEADHUNTING SOCIETYS BUT NOT FROM THE PHILIPPINES. SO MY QUESTION IS DID THE NATIVE PHILIPINOS HAVE THESE SKULL DISPLAYS IN THIER VILLAGES OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE.? THE FALLEN WARRIOR IN THE PICTURE IS RECENTLY KILLED IN THE BATTLE SO THE SKULLS WERE ALREADY THERE AND NOT FROM THE BATTLE AND IT IS UNLIKELY THE TROOPS MADE THE DISPLAY.

10th July 2009, 07:43 PM	#16
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	The fellow with the katipunan dagger is Gen. Tomas Mascardo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomas_Mascardo looks very similar to the dagger, once posted but now the photos are gone, of General Leandro Fullon. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002102.html perhaps Bill Marsh has a opinion

11th July 2009, 01:59 AM	#17
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	The first 2 photographs under the heading "Tingguian" are actually Ilongots (aka Ilbilao or Bugkalot). The Tinguian/Tingguian or Itneg inhabit Abra (of Northern Luzon); while the Ilongot used to inhabit areas presently called Isabela, Quirino, Nueva Ecija and Nueva Vizcaya (Northeast Luzon). The Ilongot men in the photographs are wearing the dance attire (i.e. ornamentation blades with scabbards and dance shields). In the old days (i.e. when those old photos were taken), it was easy for non-locals to misidentify or distinguish between the various Northern Luzon peoples.

11th July 2009, 04:28 AM	#20
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	I stand corrected! Thanks Miguel for clearing that up!

11th July 2009, 06:53 AM	#21
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CALL IT A WAR MEMORIAL OR SOMETHING ELSE. IF IT WAS DONE BY THE AMERICANS IT WOULD NOT BE A WAR MEMORIAL BUT IF THE MORO DID IT PERHAPS IT WAS A MEMORIAL TO THEIR FALLEN BROTHERS? YOUR REFRENCES POINT OUT THAT IT WAS NOT DONE BECAUSE OF TRIBAL TRADITION BUT AS A RESULT OF A TERRIBLE BATTLE AND GREAT LOSS OF LIFE. BUT THE WHY IT WAS DONE AND BY WHO IS PERHAPS A MYSTERY. IF WHAT WE SEE IS A RESULT OF THE AMERICANS CLEANING UP THE AREA I DON'T THINK THEY DID A PROPER OR RESPECTFUL JOB OF IT UNLESS THEY DID IT TO SERVE AS A WARNING TO THE MORO IN THE AREA THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD WAR BUT UNFORTUNATELY UNTIL MAN CHANGES A LOT IT WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND. IN BORNEO THE SKULLS WERE KEPT HANGING IN THE LONGHOUSE, IN NEW GUINEA THEY WERE KEPT IN SKULL RACKS OR HANGING IN THE HOUSE, LOTS OF OTHER PLACES THEY WERE KEPT AROUND THE FRONT OR SIDES OF THE HOUSE. AZTEC'S IN AMERICA HAD MASSIVE SKULL RACKS SOME FOR SACRIFICIAL VICTIMS AND OTHERS FOR THE SKULLS OF THE BEST PLAYER IN THEIR BALL GAMES. THE PICTURE MADE ME AWARE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS HEADHUNTING IN THE PHILIPPINES BUT DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR SKULLS? A MORBID QUESTION PERHAPS BUT IT WAS A PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

11th July 2009, 03:17 PM	#28
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	I'm surprised they didn't have a problem with Laughing Sickness in a tribe with such a ritual ..

12th July 2009, 04:03 AM	#29
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Hi Migueldiaz, The story about Tingguians mixing the brain with wine may or may not be true. AFAIK, the possibility is not remote. However, I am yet to find witness accounts that could collaborate the story of Paul de la Gironiere. That I expect will not be easy to find, because the practice of ritual cannibalism have been held in secret from foreign visitors, who would therefore rely on hearse for their stories (e.g. Paul de la Gironiere). On the other hand, I have no doubt that ritual cannibalism existed in the Philippines. The distributing of skull parts to members of the village is probably true, because there are collaborative stories. Other body parts were also taken (e.g. fingers). The photos of the Ilongots are indeed Ilongots. I recall reading an explanation that the "relieving of burden" as a consequence of beheading a person is experienced by the headhunter, not the victim. The headhunter went to headhunt in order to "relieve life's burdens." Nowadays, we just go to the gym for physical workout :-)

12th July 2009, 04:15 AM	#30
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	By the way, critics of Paul de la Gironiere say that he actually did not witness the rituals he mentioned in his story; and that his story was a product of hearsay. The critics say that de la Gironiere exagerrated the scope of his explorations in order to gain the fame he wanted. Nonetheless, whether or not he actually witnessed the ritual does not necessarily mean that such ritual did not exist in the past.