Kaskara - help with translation please?

[stephen wood]

I would be very grateful if anyone could give me an idea of the reading of these Arabic texts which are inscribed on a kaskara blade.

The blade itself is stamped with an orb and a lion as per Pallme's footnote, which might date it as early as 1837 although I expect the engraving is later.

It is not as long as usual (31") showing no sign of having been shortened and handles very well.

I read the date in the moon as 1915 (Gregorian) an auspicious year in the history of the Darfur Sultanate.

Many thanks,

Stephen

[stephen wood]

...are there any simple yet reliable indicators of the age of a blade?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by stephen wood

...are there any simple yet reliable indicators of the age of a blade?

I think we all wish there were Stephen!
I think kaskara blades are among the most difficult, as they resemble the medieval sword blades, which remained a simple but standard form for broadswords until into the 19th century. The complication of blade forms and markings being copied by bladesmiths in other centers for the export of blades adds to the conundrum, as well as the use of markings and names of established makers.
Then with the native swordsmiths and thier amazing abilities at producing thier own interpretations of blades, it further complicates the formula.

The addition of the markings I would consider later as you have noted, but I am not familiar with the source you cite, 'Pallme'.
Also, I am unclear on the significance of 1915 in the Darfur Sultanate.

All best regards,
Jim

[ward]

Jim I think Stephen means that Ail Dinar was in power, he was pretty easy going compared with the Mahdists.
It looks like the Arabic is etched not engraved. That is usually a good sign it was done later than the blade especially if it is older one.

[stephen wood]

Ignasz Pallme "Travels in Kordofan" - a goldmine:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=e...sult#PPA298,M1

Darfur 1915:

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com...thesultan.aspx

Hope you find them interesting

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Ward, I was assuming Ali Dinar was the point of reference, but was unsure...couldn't recall what year he was killed by British after insurgency.

I am curious about the snake/python symbolism,which does seem to occur noticeably on blades from Darfur and these regions, enough to be noted in the Reed article.

Thank you for the links Stephen, I did indeed find them interesting, especially the note on Peter Knell blades.

The cross and orb is different than those typically inscribed on European blades in which the cross's verticle line extends to a horizontal line bisecting the orb. Italian blades of some similarity identified by the markings on them , as well as the orb and cross as early as 16th century are known in Tunisian regions. Perhaps these were the prototypes for the native applied versions.

The lion reminds me in essence of the winged lions found stamped in some schiavona, for St. Marks. I believe the stance is however similar. There is of course considerable record of Venetian trade into Tunisian regions.

Thanks again guys,
all the best,
Jim

[Jeff D]

Hi All,

I have posted this one of mine a couple times. The marks are attributed to Peter Kull the print is from Geschichte Der Solinger Klingenindustrie by R. Cronau.

I hope this helps.

All the Best
Jeff

[stephen wood]

Thanks...did that sword come from Artzi (Oriental Arms)? There was one on his site before which looked quite old. When I saw him at the London Arms Fair he mentioned seeing one with those marks there (it was in my bag by then ).

In the Pallme text Peter Knell is presumably Peter Kull. He gives very precise dimensions which suggest that blade length was standard by that time. The nearest I could find to the Death's Head mark is below...

Would the inlay have been done as part of the forging process or later?

[Jeff D]

Hi Stephen,

No I got this one quite a few years ago, it was about to be taken apart to have its "original" crusader style hilt placed on it . I did see a similar one on Artzi's site a few years ago. The inlay was added to the original makers marks later, most likely locally. It appears to be a red gold. The example you show is not the deaths head mark it is a swallow tail butterfly for a yet unknown maker. The only death's head I have seen is on this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=skull+kull this is apparently on a kilij which doesn't make sense, unless it was converted to a kilij from a original broad sword. Unfortunately Teodor was not able to show the blade to confirm this.

All the Best
Jeff

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Jeff D

Unfortunately Teodor was not able to show the blade to confirm this.

Jeff,

I regret not seeing the entire blade perhaps even more than you do. According to the owner, it is of pattern welded damascus, but I have never been able to confirm this.

Hopefully one day it will surface up for sale and I will be able to obtain more info and pictures.

Regards,

Teodor

[stephen wood]

...that has to be it. The pierced tang is exactly what I would expect to see on a kaskara blade. It also fits Pallme's comment that the imported blades are "...rounded off inferiorly".

[stephen wood]

...on closer inspection I think the blade might have been shortened - at the hilt - by what I believe is called stock removal. Has anyone come across this method before?

[stephen wood]

...apparently the inscription says something along the lines that news spreads faster by the sword than the pen...

[Dom]

Originally Posted by stephen wood

I read the date in the moon as 1915 (Gregorian)

1912 to be more precise
the last digit is a 2 ... here all digits are wrote in arabic in fact

quality of your pic's is not enough to proceed at a try of translation, sorry

à +

Dom