Help with kukri sheath?

Pukka Bundook · 31st March 2009, 12:34 AM

Hello fellows,

I wonder if anyone could help out with my kukri sheath?

This is my only kukri at present, (Tho' one is on the way!)

As you can see, the scabbards for the karda and chokmak are missing.

Q, Does anyone have pictures of how they should look to be right for a kukri like this, and with a sheath like this?
There appears to be quite an assortment of arrangements, so would value the help of those who know.

I'm green where kukris are concerned, but am finding them rather hard to resist!

here are the pics;

And best wishes,

Richard.

sirupate · 31st March 2009, 10:20 AM

Hello Richard,

Your scabbard is quite intriguing, as it has the ridge on the front, associated with military scabbards for stopping the frogs from slipping up!

Its certainley a a village kukri, with a typical shape found all over Nepal, I have posted some picks below of a villager scabbard from Bhojpure district, it would be a case of adapting it to suit your kukri;

Cheers Simon

Pukka Bundook · 31st March 2009, 02:49 PM

Simon,

Thank you for the reply and photos!

That looks a really nice kukri, and the karda looks to be of such a length to be some use as well!

I have a few questions if I may;

The pocket for holding the tinder, Is it sewed to the karda pockets?

How are the karda pockets attached to the main sheath?

I see a 'belt' encircling the main and back pockets. Is this tied at the front with buttons, or sewed together?

How is this scabbard attached for wearing?...(I don't see any loops or anything)

Re. my kukri;
I'm rather pleased it's a 'village' type!

What style would you classify it as? (To me, it looks like a sirupate, being rather narrow, but I'm learning I hope!)

The ridge on the scabbard runs all the way around, and has "Guernsey MAy '65" on the back.

Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry for so many questions!!

This old kukri had been badly attacked by a clown with a grinding wheel when I got it. see pic. attached;

Thanks again and all best wishes,
Richard.

spiral · 31st March 2009, 07:57 PM

Hello again Richard,Your kukri getting thinner with evry photo I see of it! still the blade looks better after regrinding & its actualy not usual for villiger kukri to have buttplates.

Spiral

Pukka Bundook · 31st March 2009, 09:36 PM

Hi Jonathan,

Yes, he's a bit skinny alright!

How would you categorise this kukri? Worn away, siropate, or what?
I must admit though, I do still like him!

When the knife is in its sheath, there is very little movement back and forth, so I don't thing the blade was a great lot wider than at present.

I am very pleased that there are chaps on this forum who can help fill in the gaps re. these knives!

Thank you!

Richard.

spiral · 31st March 2009, 10:50 PM

Hi Richard, Well I would say its rather worn away & its possible it had something of a belly at one time, which has been damaged then badly ground & now quite smoothed out with its most recent grinding.

So its rather hard to say what it would have been, I am sure it was always fairly slender, but not neccasarily as slim as a sirupate.

Its a wonderfull scabbard though & very auspicios with the sun & moon markings.

Spiral

sirupate · 1st April 2009, 10:43 AM

Hello Richard,

Quote:

The pocket for holding the tinder, Is it sewed to the karda pockets?

Yes they are

Quote:

How are the karda pockets attached to the main sheath?

They are also sewn on, occaisonally small nails are used

Quote:

I see a 'belt' encircling the main and back pockets. Is this tied at the front with buttons, or sewed together?

Picture;

Quote:

How is this scabbard attached for wearing?...(I don't see any loops or anything)

In Nepal they stick in their sash, but frogs can be used

Quote:

What style would you classify it as? (To me, it looks like a sirupate, being rather narrow, but I'm learning I hope!)

No particular style to this kukri, it is a common village shape, especially around Kathmandu area, although I have seen them in use around Pokhara and up in the mountains as well. In eastern Nepal some might call it a Baspate Kukri. Metal butt plates are quite common by the way!

Quote:

The ridge on the scabbard runs all the way around, and has "Guernsey MAy '65" on the back

My guess is that some one was in Nepal in 1965, and brought it back as a momento, probably as simple as that.

Cheers Simon

Berkley · 1st April 2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirupate

Your scabbard is quite intriguing, as it has the ridge on the front, associated with military scabbards for stopping the frogs from slipping up

Since this is the case, perhaps the simplest way to provide pockets is to make them as part of a new military style frog. That wouldn't involve any alteration to the original scabbard, which I think is quite interesting.

Pukka Bundook · 2nd April 2009, 03:48 AM

Berkley,

Thank you for the picture and idea.
I am sure this is the way to go. It will save possibly messing up the scabbard!

I'm pleased you find it interesting.
Can you tell me anything about the design?

Thanks again,

Richard.

Berkley · 2nd April 2009, 05:40 AM

Many village kukris have wooden scabbards carved in folk art designs. It is not uncommon to see details carved in these which imitate the trappings of the leather-covered scabbards. (See the carved "belt and buttons" design in the top one shown here). Yours, on the other hand, is a leather scabbard tooled with the designs common to wooden ones. Also, as Simon says, the ridge to secure a frog is a military design which I have not observed on a village scabbard.
I do note on closer examination of your pictures that there appear to be two groups of apparent nail holes on the back of your scabbard near the throat, and, a karda's length away, a single nail hole just on the spine side of the seam. These are consistent with the usual method of attaching pockets to a scabbard, rather than the frog attachment I showed above.

sirupate · 2nd April 2009, 10:31 AM

I agree with what Berkley says, the nail holes would have been for the general housing on the kukri, which the frogs (if they were used on this kukri), would have fitted over the top.
I wonder if this kukri didn't belong to an ex Gurkha hence the ridge for the frog on his scabbard, and the possiblity of frog carry, with the ex Gurha wearing a more western style of dress, which was bought or given to a Westerner in Nepal May 1965, and then found its way to Guernsey, and onto you Richard

Pukka Bundook · 2nd April 2009, 04:32 PM

Berkley,

Thank you for your input on this.

It is a great step, learning that you have not before observed a ridge on a village scabbard.
This information is greatly appreciated, as I am just learning, and know you are far ahead of me where this is concerned!

Re. the nail-holes, Yes, there are some, and it does look like the pockets were attacked in this manner, as the stitching on the scabbard seam is not done to the same level, where it would be out of sight.

I will attach a photo with a clearer view of this in near future.

Thanks for all your help!

Simon,

This is all very interesting!
I do know that quite a lot of Gurkha officers settled on the channel islands. Though this piece isn't what an officer would probably carry, there may be some connection.
I do have one small problem with the idea that someone picked this up, and brought it home to Guernsey, and marked it as such.
For me, If I aquired something abroad, I would be much more likely to mark it with the name of the place it was aquired, rather than bring it home and mark it.
ie; If I purchased something in the Black Forest, I'd probably mark it as such, rather than mark it "Innisfail" where I live. (That is, unless I marked it with my address, in case of loss)

Your thoughts on the ex-Gurkha are rather interesting!

With the military ridge, and village design, how should we classify this?

Thank you for your time!!

Richard.

sirupate · 2nd April 2009, 05:00 PM

Hello Richard,

A lot of ex Gurkha Officers settled every where in the UK, not that many in Guernsey or the Channel Islands per say, compared to the amount of Gurkha Officers that served in WWII, of whom the percentage KIA was pretty high BTW.

It is very unlikely to have been brought back by an Officer, certainly not used by a Gurkha in WWII, that's for sure. I think the marking had a special signifigance to the person that brought it back originally?

Classification? Simply a 'Kukri of mystery'

Berkley · 2nd April 2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirupate

Classification? Simply a 'Kukri of mystery'

Perfect!

sirupate · 2nd April 2009, 06:49 PM

Pukka Bundook · 3rd April 2009, 06:46 AM

Hi Simon, Yes, "kukri of mystery" will do.

I had no thought whatsoever of it being carried by an officer, just trying to figure how it came to Guernsey.... and some officers do retire there....it'd only take one!

Personally, I think it quite likely that it was purchased as a momento In Guernsey by a visitor, and marked accordingly.

This doesn't answer how it Got there though!.....ebay purchase maybe?

31st March 2009, 12:34 AM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Help with kukri sheath? Hello fellows, I wonder if anyone could help out with my kukri sheath? This is my only kukri at present, (Tho' one is on the way!) As you can see, the scabbards for the karda and chokmak are missing. Q, Does anyone have pictures of how they should look to be right for a kukri like this, and with a sheath like this? There appears to be quite an assortment of arrangements, so would value the help of those who know. I'm green where kukris are concerned, but am finding them rather hard to resist! here are the pics; And best wishes, Richard. Attached Images

31st March 2009, 02:49 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Simon, Thank you for the reply and photos! That looks a really nice kukri, and the karda looks to be of such a length to be some use as well! I have a few questions if I may; The pocket for holding the tinder, Is it sewed to the karda pockets? How are the karda pockets attached to the main sheath? I see a 'belt' encircling the main and back pockets. Is this tied at the front with buttons, or sewed together? How is this scabbard attached for wearing?...(I don't see any loops or anything) Re. my kukri; I'm rather pleased it's a 'village' type! What style would you classify it as? (To me, it looks like a sirupate, being rather narrow, but I'm learning I hope!) The ridge on the scabbard runs all the way around, and has "Guernsey MAy '65" on the back. Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry for so many questions!! This old kukri had been badly attacked by a clown with a grinding wheel when I got it. see pic. attached; Thanks again and all best wishes, Richard. Attached Images

31st March 2009, 10:20 AM	#2
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hello Richard, Your scabbard is quite intriguing, as it has the ridge on the front, associated with military scabbards for stopping the frogs from slipping up! Its certainley a a village kukri, with a typical shape found all over Nepal, I have posted some picks below of a villager scabbard from Bhojpure district, it would be a case of adapting it to suit your kukri; Cheers Simon

31st March 2009, 07:57 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Hello again Richard,Your kukri getting thinner with evry photo I see of it! still the blade looks better after regrinding & its actualy not usual for villiger kukri to have buttplates. Spiral

31st March 2009, 09:36 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hi Jonathan, Yes, he's a bit skinny alright! How would you categorise this kukri? Worn away, siropate, or what? I must admit though, I do still like him! When the knife is in its sheath, there is very little movement back and forth, so I don't thing the blade was a great lot wider than at present. I am very pleased that there are chaps on this forum who can help fill in the gaps re. these knives! Thank you! Richard.

31st March 2009, 10:50 PM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Hi Richard, Well I would say its rather worn away & its possible it had something of a belly at one time, which has been damaged then badly ground & now quite smoothed out with its most recent grinding. So its rather hard to say what it would have been, I am sure it was always fairly slender, but not neccasarily as slim as a sirupate. Its a wonderfull scabbard though & very auspicios with the sun & moon markings. Spiral

2nd April 2009, 03:48 AM	#9
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Berkley, Thank you for the picture and idea. I am sure this is the way to go. It will save possibly messing up the scabbard! I'm pleased you find it interesting. Can you tell me anything about the design? Thanks again, Richard.

2nd April 2009, 05:40 AM	#10
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	Many village kukris have wooden scabbards carved in folk art designs. It is not uncommon to see details carved in these which imitate the trappings of the leather-covered scabbards. (See the carved "belt and buttons" design in the top one shown here). Yours, on the other hand, is a leather scabbard tooled with the designs common to wooden ones. Also, as Simon says, the ridge to secure a frog is a military design which I have not observed on a village scabbard. I do note on closer examination of your pictures that there appear to be two groups of apparent nail holes on the back of your scabbard near the throat, and, a karda's length away, a single nail hole just on the spine side of the seam. These are consistent with the usual method of attaching pockets to a scabbard, rather than the frog attachment I showed above.

2nd April 2009, 10:31 AM	#11
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	I agree with what Berkley says, the nail holes would have been for the general housing on the kukri, which the frogs (if they were used on this kukri), would have fitted over the top. I wonder if this kukri didn't belong to an ex Gurkha hence the ridge for the frog on his scabbard, and the possiblity of frog carry, with the ex Gurha wearing a more western style of dress, which was bought or given to a Westerner in Nepal May 1965, and then found its way to Guernsey, and onto you Richard

2nd April 2009, 04:32 PM	#12
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Berkley, Thank you for your input on this. It is a great step, learning that you have not before observed a ridge on a village scabbard. This information is greatly appreciated, as I am just learning, and know you are far ahead of me where this is concerned! Re. the nail-holes, Yes, there are some, and it does look like the pockets were attacked in this manner, as the stitching on the scabbard seam is not done to the same level, where it would be out of sight. I will attach a photo with a clearer view of this in near future. Thanks for all your help! Simon, This is all very interesting! I do know that quite a lot of Gurkha officers settled on the channel islands. Though this piece isn't what an officer would probably carry, there may be some connection. I do have one small problem with the idea that someone picked this up, and brought it home to Guernsey, and marked it as such. For me, If I aquired something abroad, I would be much more likely to mark it with the name of the place it was aquired, rather than bring it home and mark it. ie; If I purchased something in the Black Forest, I'd probably mark it as such, rather than mark it "Innisfail" where I live. (That is, unless I marked it with my address, in case of loss) Your thoughts on the ex-Gurkha are rather interesting! With the military ridge, and village design, how should we classify this? Thank you for your time!! Richard.

2nd April 2009, 05:00 PM	#13
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hello Richard, A lot of ex Gurkha Officers settled every where in the UK, not that many in Guernsey or the Channel Islands per say, compared to the amount of Gurkha Officers that served in WWII, of whom the percentage KIA was pretty high BTW. It is very unlikely to have been brought back by an Officer, certainly not used by a Gurkha in WWII, that's for sure. I think the marking had a special signifigance to the person that brought it back originally? Classification? Simply a 'Kukri of mystery'

2nd April 2009, 06:49 PM	#15
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373

3rd April 2009, 06:46 AM	#16
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hi Simon, Yes, "kukri of mystery" will do. I had no thought whatsoever of it being carried by an officer, just trying to figure how it came to Guernsey.... and some officers do retire there....it'd only take one! Personally, I think it quite likely that it was purchased as a momento In Guernsey by a visitor, and marked accordingly. This doesn't answer how it Got there though!.....ebay purchase maybe?