SE Asian (?) one sided sheaths

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 03:47 PM

Many scabbards are made out of two hollowed shells of wood bound together. But in SE Asia (elsewhere, too?) we encounter a different concept as well. The most obvious are the open-sided sheaths, and I think they may fit in here somewhere, but they're not what I'm writing about. I'm writing about sheaths with one hollowed shell, and the other side (always, AFAIK, the back) a flat board. This is common with the chisel ground blades of the Visayan Sea, though it is also common for them to come in "ordinary" two-shell sheaths. It seems related to having a long tail beyond the blade cavity on one (front) side only. It, or its features, are sometimes seen on centrally bevelled swords, as with my mysterious t-pommelled sword, whose sheath seems (can't really see the wood at the throat though) to be centrally hollowed (?) but has a long pronounced one-sided tail. Another example is my recently acquired matulis-hilted scramasax; wedge-section blade in a sheath that is basically hollowed on one side only (some on the other, perhaps for fine fitting, as I have had to do under similar circumstances; but only about 10% to the back; 90% to the front.). Thoughts? Examples? Questions? Answers?

Rick · 23rd April 2005, 03:57 PM

Less work for the craftsman ?

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 04:42 PM

It is a little now, with the flat board being the basic unit of wood (though you have to remove the same amount of wood to form the cavity for the blade, either way), but for a traditional carver proceeding from maybe even picking and felling a tree, much less-so; it's not a lot harder to initially make the scooped out shape than a flat one; really superflat is actually one of the harder things to do with just knives and chisels. So, how does the timeline go on these? Is it the older way left over from ancestral chisel bevelled blades in some areas where it gets paired to centrally bevelled ones? Or is it newer, growing out of sawmills and flat boards? Don't ask me; I dunno. The scramasax is decently old, as is my mystery slasher (you know how I am about chopping

), and these two Leyte talibons (there's two, but only one has a rectangular handle section; the other is flattened oval) seem old, too; if the 09 is a date that'll simplify matters with them......On a chisel bevel blade the one sided sheath just seems sensible; it fits better, and I remember earlier in my studies marvelling at how a centrally made sheath on a chisel bevelled Visayan sword prevents it from being able to cut out of its sheath, unlike with a kampilan (or panabas?). And then theres the central-bevelled blades in onesided sheaths......hmmmmm.....hmmmmmm!

fearn · 23rd April 2005, 06:36 PM

Hi Tom,

Didn't we hit this before here?

I agree that it's easier to hollow out one side in a two-piece wood scabbard. It's also safer, in that the edge of the blade hits wood, rather than hitting the gap between two pieces of wood, where it might cut its way out.

I think that there are some other reasons for the one piece, open scabbards, that we talked about before. They're easier to clean out (you can scrub out the gunk that would accumulate in a closed scabbard). They're also good for showing off the size of one's blade. What I'd like to see is an open face scabbard that isn't mated with a beveled edge blade. Simply for safety's sake, I think a beveled edge is a better design when there's only a single slat of wood and several straps holding it on.

I still think it's a fun topic though.

Fearn

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 08:58 PM

Haven't checked your link yet, but I will. Just wanted to add that, though actually not with these two, the board-back(?) talibon sheaths often have the flat back end just above the end of the cavity; perhaps to provide for easy cleaning and/or drainage.

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 09:06 PM

Fearn, that was the hollow-back-no-front sheaths; now I wonder about the (possibly related) flat-back-hollow-front sheaths.

23rd April 2005, 03:47 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	SE Asian (?) one sided sheaths Many scabbards are made out of two hollowed shells of wood bound together. But in SE Asia (elsewhere, too?) we encounter a different concept as well. The most obvious are the open-sided sheaths, and I think they may fit in here somewhere, but they're not what I'm writing about. I'm writing about sheaths with one hollowed shell, and the other side (always, AFAIK, the back) a flat board. This is common with the chisel ground blades of the Visayan Sea, though it is also common for them to come in "ordinary" two-shell sheaths. It seems related to having a long tail beyond the blade cavity on one (front) side only. It, or its features, are sometimes seen on centrally bevelled swords, as with my mysterious t-pommelled sword, whose sheath seems (can't really see the wood at the throat though) to be centrally hollowed (?) but has a long pronounced one-sided tail. Another example is my recently acquired matulis-hilted scramasax; wedge-section blade in a sheath that is basically hollowed on one side only (some on the other, perhaps for fine fitting, as I have had to do under similar circumstances; but only about 10% to the back; 90% to the front.). Thoughts? Examples? Questions? Answers?

23rd April 2005, 04:42 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	It is a little now, with the flat board being the basic unit of wood (though you have to remove the same amount of wood to form the cavity for the blade, either way), but for a traditional carver proceeding from maybe even picking and felling a tree, much less-so; it's not a lot harder to initially make the scooped out shape than a flat one; really superflat is actually one of the harder things to do with just knives and chisels. So, how does the timeline go on these? Is it the older way left over from ancestral chisel bevelled blades in some areas where it gets paired to centrally bevelled ones? Or is it newer, growing out of sawmills and flat boards? Don't ask me; I dunno. The scramasax is decently old, as is my mystery slasher (you know how I am about chopping ), and these two Leyte talibons (there's two, but only one has a rectangular handle section; the other is flattened oval) seem old, too; if the 09 is a date that'll simplify matters with them......On a chisel bevel blade the one sided sheath just seems sensible; it fits better, and I remember earlier in my studies marvelling at how a centrally made sheath on a chisel bevelled Visayan sword prevents it from being able to cut out of its sheath, unlike with a kampilan (or panabas?). And then theres the central-bevelled blades in onesided sheaths......hmmmmm.....hmmmmmm! Last edited by tom hyle; 23rd April 2005 at 08:54 PM.

23rd April 2005, 06:36 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tom, Didn't we hit this before here? I agree that it's easier to hollow out one side in a two-piece wood scabbard. It's also safer, in that the edge of the blade hits wood, rather than hitting the gap between two pieces of wood, where it might cut its way out. I think that there are some other reasons for the one piece, open scabbards, that we talked about before. They're easier to clean out (you can scrub out the gunk that would accumulate in a closed scabbard). They're also good for showing off the size of one's blade. What I'd like to see is an open face scabbard that isn't mated with a beveled edge blade. Simply for safety's sake, I think a beveled edge is a better design when there's only a single slat of wood and several straps holding it on. I still think it's a fun topic though. Fearn Last edited by fearn; 23rd April 2005 at 09:08 PM. Reason: fixing typo

23rd April 2005, 03:57 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Less work for the craftsman ?

23rd April 2005, 08:58 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Haven't checked your link yet, but I will. Just wanted to add that, though actually not with these two, the board-back(?) talibon sheaths often have the flat back end just above the end of the cavity; perhaps to provide for easy cleaning and/or drainage.

23rd April 2005, 09:06 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Fearn, that was the hollow-back-no-front sheaths; now I wonder about the (possibly related) flat-back-hollow-front sheaths.