Timonium Arms Conference Conflict

rand · 20th February 2009, 11:50 PM

With the Imperial Auction occuring Saturday night, basically the same time as the collectors conference. Would not Friday evening, a day earlier be a better time for the arms conference? Can imagine people leaving to attend the auction with the Saturday venue. On Friday evening there would not be a conflict for those who wish to attend the auction.

rand

dennee · 21st February 2009, 12:16 AM

As one who will drive to Baltimore and not stay over night, I'd prefer to have the events on the same day so as not to make two trips for the seminar and the show (or choose which one to forego).

Lew · 21st February 2009, 02:22 AM

I think most of us are traveling quite a distance to be there early Saturday morning. Some of us are staying at the hotel so no Friday is not good at all.

Lew

rand · 21st February 2009, 11:37 PM

How about doing this at a different show then? Such as the Louisville show or the Allentown show...

rand

Lew · 21st February 2009, 11:54 PM

Rand

If you want to go to the auction it is right across the hall from the seminar room.

Lew

Battara · 22nd February 2009, 01:39 AM

What is interesting is that first came the conference years ago, then last year the auction........

VANDOO · 22nd February 2009, 02:10 AM

IT DOES CAUSE A CONFLICT ON SEVERAL LEVELS.
1. BEING COLLECTORS WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO COLLECT, WE ALSO WANT TO LEARN SO ITS A CONFLICT, WHICH TO DO (LEARN OR COLLECT)

2. AUCTIONS NEVER GET TO THE ITEMS YOU ARE INTERESTED IN UNTIL THE LAST OF THE AUCTION (MURPHYS LAW #347) SO ITS LIKELY YOU WILL MISS THE PRESENTATIONS EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T INTEND TO.
3. AT THE GATHERING WE ARE NOT IN COMPETICIAN WITH EACH OTHER AND ARE THERE TO SHARE AND LEARN.

4. AT THE AUCTION WE ARE THERE TO COMPETE AND OUT BID THE OTHER GUYS FOR WHAT WE WANT.

IT IS A GREAT VENUE FOR A GATHERING OF COLLECTORS BUT IT IS ALSO A GREAT VENUE FOR AN AUCTION. UNFORTUNATELY THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY AROUND ONE COMPETING WITH THE OTHER FOR THE SAME TIME SLOT AND SAME PEOPLE.
UNFORTUNATELY ALL I CAN DO IS MAKE THESE OBSERVATIONS BUT HAVE NO SUGGESTIONS AS HOW TO GET AROUND IT UNLESS ONE CAN RUN OVER AND LOOK AT THE AUCTION ITEMS AND LEAVE A ABSENTEE BID ON WHAT HE IS INTERESTED IN AND THEN GO TO THE CONFERENCE SEE THE PRESENTATIONS, MINGLE AND MEET THE FELLOW MEMBERS THEN CHECK BACK AFTERWARDS TO SEE IF HE HAS WON ANYTHING AT THE AUCTION. 1.THIS WOULD ELIMINATE GETTING IN A BIDDING WAR AND PAYING TOO MUCH.
2. BUT ALSO ELIMINATES THE POSSIBILITY OF GETING A GREAT DEAL WITH A LOW BID ON SOMETHING NO ONE ELSE BIDS ON.

THE PRIMARY REASON I WENT WAS TO MEET THE OTHER MEMBERS AND TO SEE THE PRESENTATIONS AND LEARN FROM THEM AND SHARE WHAT LITTLE KNOWLEGE I COULD. THE SHOW IS A VERY GOOD ONE BUT TO ME WAS SECONDARY IN IMPORTANCE TO HANGING OUT WITH FELLOW COLLECTORS AND LEARNING IN A NON COMPEDITIVE ENVIORNMENT. OF COURSE THE FOOD IS ALSO A FACTOR TO ME ESPECIALLY IF IT INVOLVES CRAB CAKES.

THE SAD THING ABOUT IT IS THERE IS ONLY ONE CONFRENCE LIKE THIS FOR COLLECTORS LIKE US IN A YEAR AND MANY AUCTIONS. IT WILL BE A SHAME IF THE AUCTION HELPS ELIMINATE THAT ONE GATHERING AS IT IS UNIQUE IN MY EXPERIENCE.

Rick · 22nd February 2009, 03:34 AM

It just might be time to organize a true ethnographic show and conference at a different time of year in a different place, eh ?

(Yeah, I know, Mr No Show is talking )

Mark · 22nd February 2009, 11:02 AM

We have been discussing this for a couple of years now (even before the auction came on the scene), without a clear resolution. The Louisville show is a logical alternative venue, as was the idea of having it move among a few venues year-to-year, but the idea was met with a lukewarm response.

We did lose some people to the auction last year, but on the other hand, I think a few people dropped by who would not have otherwise. The biggest disruption was people going in and out to monitor the auction progress. We have tried to build in time in the program for breaks, and to not have it run too long. I think the auction ended at about 2 am last year, so there was plenty going on after the seminar was over.

We also tried a two-evening program one year, with the main event Friday night. I think attendance was good overall, but the final impression was that Friday created too much pressure on people's real-life schedules. We can certainly continue the discussion this year. The seminar attendance has been waning a bit in recent years, so finding a way to reinvigorate it would be excellent.

Mark · 22nd February 2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

It just might be time to organize a true ethnographic show and conference at a different time of year in a different place, eh ?

(Yeah, I know, Mr No Show is talking )

PS: I personally like the idea or organizing an "official" society and holding an annual event, but it would mean it being a pay-for-registration event, as our benevolent sponsor, Oriental-Arms, would likely not be available.

rand · 24th February 2009, 06:09 PM

Have never been to the Louisville show but have heard only good things about it, to me this is an idea worth considering.

On another note, are there any collectors attending to the Baltimore show that are interested in meeting for dinner on Friday night?

rand

Lee · 24th February 2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

It just might be time to organize a true ethnographic show and conference at a different time of year in a different place, eh ?

Several of us had pretty much agreed that this would be a direction we should strongly consider taking in the long run. We might have well tried this year had the economy not gotten sick.

I just got back from attending the annual Arts and Crafts Conference with a friend in N.C. and I was impressed with how well the organizer had coordinated lectures, workshops, exhibits and multiple sales shows over a Fri - Sun time span. I had had a lot of theories in my head and it was nice to see someone actually doing it so well in practice. I'll be carrying the program with me to Baltimore...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

I personally like the idea or organizing an "official" society and holding an annual event, but it would mean it being a pay-for-registration event, as our benevolent sponsor, Oriental-Arms, would likely not be available.

Obviously, I got license to study this move from Artzi (before the economy caused me to drop the ball), but, yes, an expanded conference would likely entail a registration fee for participants. There would be some revenue from dealer tables and likely an allowance from the conference hotel towards function room rentals depending upon how many rooms were taken by participants, but, the 'free ride' would likely be over. I think every attempt would be made to hold down the costs as much as possible while still having a quality event. I'll be happy to discuss the topic there in Timonium or continuing on in this thread...

ward · 25th February 2009, 04:20 AM

The preview and auction are being held in just one hall at the Crowne Plaza this year, rather than two. This should reduce traffic and noise in the hallway considerably.

Rick · 25th February 2009, 02:30 PM

Still, the conflict is there ..

Oriental-Arms · 25th February 2009, 03:16 PM

Oriental-Arms will gladly continue to finance the meetings including invited lectures, presentations and display tables. We strongly support the ides of a stand alone meeting, one or two evenings but we are concerned that a stand alone meeting not linked to a gun show will not attract enough participants.

VANDOO · 26th February 2009, 08:20 PM

SOME OF THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS I BELONG TO HAVE A CONFRENCE/GATHERING ONCE A YEAR. IT IS HELD IN DIFFERENT PLACES EACH YEAR AND HAS DIFFERENT SPEAKERS AND SUBJECTS EACH YEAR AND SOMETIMES THE FOCUS IS ON SOME SPECIFIC ITEMS.
PERHAPS IF ORIENTAL ARMS ATTENDS SOME OTHER SHOWS EVERY YEAR SOMETHING COULD BE WORKED OUT AROUND THAT.
AS MENTIONED THE LOUIVILLE SHOW IS A GOOD ONE AND HAS MORE OF WHAT WE COLLECT THAN THE SHOWS IN TULSA OKLAHOMA EVEN THOUGH TULSA IS A BIGGER SHOW. ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THE BIG ETHINOGRAPHIC SHOWS IN AUGUST IN SANTA FE NEW MEXICO THERE IS A LOT TO INTEREST OUR GROUP THERE AS WELL. THE BALTIMORE SHOW IS STILL VERY GOOD AND THE AUCTION DOES GIVE US MORE ITEMS TO LOOK AT AND POSSIBLY BUY SO IS ACTUALLY A PLUS. I HAVEN'T BEEN TO THE AUCTION SO DON'T KNOW IF IT IS DONE WITH AN AUCTIONEER OR IS PERHAPS A SILENT AUCTION. I THINK SOMETHING CAN BE WORKED,OUT OF BENEFIT TO BOTH WITH A LITTLE FINE TUNING. A SILENT AUCTION THAT ENDS AFTER THE CONFRENCE WOULD BE ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION AND THE BREAKS DURING THE CONFRENCE IS ANOTHER IDEA THAT MAKES SENSE.

Rick · 27th February 2009, 02:34 AM

Whatever falls out; it would seem in no ones' interest to have the two events run concurrently ...

rand · 27th February 2009, 10:23 PM

Having the collectors gathering occur the same weekend as an antqiue arms show seems a good venue. Having it occur same weekend as auction and arms show seems to constrcitive.

There is another reason for a venue other than the Baltimore arms show, is that tables at the Baltimore arms show are simply to difficult to get and if you want to find something good one must be at the show the same time as everyone else. Have heard from other collectors about this and some are no longer attending because of it. Thats why the Louisville show sounded like a plausible choice to me, have not heard of problems for someone that wishes to have a table also. Some of us want a table for a place to kabitz with fellow collectors or have a display, or simply a place to sit and watch the crowds go by.

Either way I suggest occuring with a show that has tables available or early buy-in passes to be a strong consideration for a venue that will endure.

rand

Lee · 28th February 2009, 02:14 PM

By holding our own stand-alone show, we could control those aspects.

As it would be a small show, small tables for anyone wanting one should be possible and not too expensive.

Personally, I'd opt for the Richard May Brimfield experience: the sales room is unlocked at the specified time and opened to dealers and weekend registrants at the same instant.

20th February 2009, 11:50 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Timonium Arms Conference Conflict With the Imperial Auction occuring Saturday night, basically the same time as the collectors conference. Would not Friday evening, a day earlier be a better time for the arms conference? Can imagine people leaving to attend the auction with the Saturday venue. On Friday evening there would not be a conflict for those who wish to attend the auction. rand

21st February 2009, 11:37 PM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	How about doing this at a different show then? Such as the Louisville show or the Allentown show... rand Last edited by rand; 22nd February 2009 at 12:05 AM.

22nd February 2009, 02:10 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT DOES CAUSE A CONFLICT ON SEVERAL LEVELS. 1. BEING COLLECTORS WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO COLLECT, WE ALSO WANT TO LEARN SO ITS A CONFLICT, WHICH TO DO (LEARN OR COLLECT) 2. AUCTIONS NEVER GET TO THE ITEMS YOU ARE INTERESTED IN UNTIL THE LAST OF THE AUCTION (MURPHYS LAW #347) SO ITS LIKELY YOU WILL MISS THE PRESENTATIONS EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T INTEND TO. 3. AT THE GATHERING WE ARE NOT IN COMPETICIAN WITH EACH OTHER AND ARE THERE TO SHARE AND LEARN. 4. AT THE AUCTION WE ARE THERE TO COMPETE AND OUT BID THE OTHER GUYS FOR WHAT WE WANT. IT IS A GREAT VENUE FOR A GATHERING OF COLLECTORS BUT IT IS ALSO A GREAT VENUE FOR AN AUCTION. UNFORTUNATELY THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY AROUND ONE COMPETING WITH THE OTHER FOR THE SAME TIME SLOT AND SAME PEOPLE. UNFORTUNATELY ALL I CAN DO IS MAKE THESE OBSERVATIONS BUT HAVE NO SUGGESTIONS AS HOW TO GET AROUND IT UNLESS ONE CAN RUN OVER AND LOOK AT THE AUCTION ITEMS AND LEAVE A ABSENTEE BID ON WHAT HE IS INTERESTED IN AND THEN GO TO THE CONFERENCE SEE THE PRESENTATIONS, MINGLE AND MEET THE FELLOW MEMBERS THEN CHECK BACK AFTERWARDS TO SEE IF HE HAS WON ANYTHING AT THE AUCTION. 1.THIS WOULD ELIMINATE GETTING IN A BIDDING WAR AND PAYING TOO MUCH. 2. BUT ALSO ELIMINATES THE POSSIBILITY OF GETING A GREAT DEAL WITH A LOW BID ON SOMETHING NO ONE ELSE BIDS ON. THE PRIMARY REASON I WENT WAS TO MEET THE OTHER MEMBERS AND TO SEE THE PRESENTATIONS AND LEARN FROM THEM AND SHARE WHAT LITTLE KNOWLEGE I COULD. THE SHOW IS A VERY GOOD ONE BUT TO ME WAS SECONDARY IN IMPORTANCE TO HANGING OUT WITH FELLOW COLLECTORS AND LEARNING IN A NON COMPEDITIVE ENVIORNMENT. OF COURSE THE FOOD IS ALSO A FACTOR TO ME ESPECIALLY IF IT INVOLVES CRAB CAKES. THE SAD THING ABOUT IT IS THERE IS ONLY ONE CONFRENCE LIKE THIS FOR COLLECTORS LIKE US IN A YEAR AND MANY AUCTIONS. IT WILL BE A SHAME IF THE AUCTION HELPS ELIMINATE THAT ONE GATHERING AS IT IS UNIQUE IN MY EXPERIENCE. Last edited by VANDOO; 22nd February 2009 at 02:20 AM.

21st February 2009, 12:16 AM	#2
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	As one who will drive to Baltimore and not stay over night, I'd prefer to have the events on the same day so as not to make two trips for the seminar and the show (or choose which one to forego).

21st February 2009, 02:22 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I think most of us are traveling quite a distance to be there early Saturday morning. Some of us are staying at the hotel so no Friday is not good at all. Lew

21st February 2009, 11:54 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rand If you want to go to the auction it is right across the hall from the seminar room. Lew

22nd February 2009, 01:39 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	What is interesting is that first came the conference years ago, then last year the auction........

22nd February 2009, 03:34 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	It just might be time to organize a true ethnographic show and conference at a different time of year in a different place, eh ? (Yeah, I know, Mr No Show is talking )

22nd February 2009, 11:02 AM	#9
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	We have been discussing this for a couple of years now (even before the auction came on the scene), without a clear resolution. The Louisville show is a logical alternative venue, as was the idea of having it move among a few venues year-to-year, but the idea was met with a lukewarm response. We did lose some people to the auction last year, but on the other hand, I think a few people dropped by who would not have otherwise. The biggest disruption was people going in and out to monitor the auction progress. We have tried to build in time in the program for breaks, and to not have it run too long. I think the auction ended at about 2 am last year, so there was plenty going on after the seminar was over. We also tried a two-evening program one year, with the main event Friday night. I think attendance was good overall, but the final impression was that Friday created too much pressure on people's real-life schedules. We can certainly continue the discussion this year. The seminar attendance has been waning a bit in recent years, so finding a way to reinvigorate it would be excellent.

24th February 2009, 06:09 PM	#11
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Have never been to the Louisville show but have heard only good things about it, to me this is an idea worth considering. On another note, are there any collectors attending to the Baltimore show that are interested in meeting for dinner on Friday night? rand

25th February 2009, 04:20 AM	#13
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	The preview and auction are being held in just one hall at the Crowne Plaza this year, rather than two. This should reduce traffic and noise in the hallway considerably.

25th February 2009, 02:30 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Still, the conflict is there ..

25th February 2009, 03:16 PM	#15
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Oriental-Arms will gladly continue to finance the meetings including invited lectures, presentations and display tables. We strongly support the ides of a stand alone meeting, one or two evenings but we are concerned that a stand alone meeting not linked to a gun show will not attract enough participants.

26th February 2009, 08:20 PM	#16
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SOME OF THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS I BELONG TO HAVE A CONFRENCE/GATHERING ONCE A YEAR. IT IS HELD IN DIFFERENT PLACES EACH YEAR AND HAS DIFFERENT SPEAKERS AND SUBJECTS EACH YEAR AND SOMETIMES THE FOCUS IS ON SOME SPECIFIC ITEMS. PERHAPS IF ORIENTAL ARMS ATTENDS SOME OTHER SHOWS EVERY YEAR SOMETHING COULD BE WORKED OUT AROUND THAT. AS MENTIONED THE LOUIVILLE SHOW IS A GOOD ONE AND HAS MORE OF WHAT WE COLLECT THAN THE SHOWS IN TULSA OKLAHOMA EVEN THOUGH TULSA IS A BIGGER SHOW. ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THE BIG ETHINOGRAPHIC SHOWS IN AUGUST IN SANTA FE NEW MEXICO THERE IS A LOT TO INTEREST OUR GROUP THERE AS WELL. THE BALTIMORE SHOW IS STILL VERY GOOD AND THE AUCTION DOES GIVE US MORE ITEMS TO LOOK AT AND POSSIBLY BUY SO IS ACTUALLY A PLUS. I HAVEN'T BEEN TO THE AUCTION SO DON'T KNOW IF IT IS DONE WITH AN AUCTIONEER OR IS PERHAPS A SILENT AUCTION. I THINK SOMETHING CAN BE WORKED,OUT OF BENEFIT TO BOTH WITH A LITTLE FINE TUNING. A SILENT AUCTION THAT ENDS AFTER THE CONFRENCE WOULD BE ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION AND THE BREAKS DURING THE CONFRENCE IS ANOTHER IDEA THAT MAKES SENSE.

27th February 2009, 02:34 AM	#17
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Whatever falls out; it would seem in no ones' interest to have the two events run concurrently ...

27th February 2009, 10:23 PM	#18
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Having the collectors gathering occur the same weekend as an antqiue arms show seems a good venue. Having it occur same weekend as auction and arms show seems to constrcitive. There is another reason for a venue other than the Baltimore arms show, is that tables at the Baltimore arms show are simply to difficult to get and if you want to find something good one must be at the show the same time as everyone else. Have heard from other collectors about this and some are no longer attending because of it. Thats why the Louisville show sounded like a plausible choice to me, have not heard of problems for someone that wishes to have a table also. Some of us want a table for a place to kabitz with fellow collectors or have a display, or simply a place to sit and watch the crowds go by. Either way I suggest occuring with a show that has tables available or early buy-in passes to be a strong consideration for a venue that will endure. rand

28th February 2009, 02:14 PM	#19
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	By holding our own stand-alone show, we could control those aspects. As it would be a small show, small tables for anyone wanting one should be possible and not too expensive. Personally, I'd opt for the Richard May Brimfield experience: the sales room is unlocked at the specified time and opened to dealers and weekend registrants at the same instant.