Shipping question about arrows from Belgium?

[Bill M]

Ethnographic shipping question:

I bought some antique arrows and a bow (Papua New Guinea) from an eBay seller in Belgium. After several unanswered emails from me asking for tracking information (over a month-long period) he finally responded when I filed a PayPal dispute that I had not received the shipment.

Though his eBay advertised shipping price was about the same as similar arrows from Belgium, he told me that he now needed over FOUR times the advertised cost to ship them. From $75 to $300.

I suggested that he needed to send the arrows at the advertised amount or face a negative feedback strike, possibly a non-performing seller strike as well.

He just emailed me, stating that UPS Belgium (and DHL) has placed "arrows of any kind" on their "CAN NOT ENTER THE US" list, and that he can not ship at all. He wants to refund my money less $30 for "trying" to ship them.

I am asking if any of our Forum members in Europe, especially Belgium know about this? Are there and other carriers who would ship them?

The bow makes the package 180cm long and that seems to require a special carrier.

Thanks in advance.

[Lew]

Bill

It seems strange that you can ship spears and swords/daggers from Belgium but not arrows . You should contact DHL/UPS to confirm. As far as a $30 refund the seller should be responible for knowing what can and can't be shipped before hand and you should be entitled to a full refund.

Lew

[Rick]

Keep us posted Bill, this could be informative .

[Atlantia]

I may be wrong here, but as far as I know arrows are ok to ship to the US.
From the POV of entry. The USA is usually pretty relaxed about edged weapons in the post.
What I think is possibly the problem is the bow and the overall length. I assume its unstrung and in a thick tube? Sometimes they allow longer max length for tubes than packages.
Have you tried UPS and DHL' websites to see if they have FAQs that help?
I would think its going to be a problem to post anywhere because of the length, not just the US.

Whatever happens, he can't keep any of your money if he doesn't send it.
Its a difficult item to post and he needed to find out if he could post it before offering it, not after he's got your money.
I spent about three hours wrapping a huge parcel yesterday. Spent £10 just on padding to protect it, and then lost another £5 on the postage as well! Thats life, I didn't factor the cost correctly when I offered it for sale so I lost a little money.
Were I the seller of the bow, I'd be aghast if I really couldn't send it to you and I'd be offerring you a complete refund. In fact the one time I did slip up and couldn't complete a deal (long story) I refunded totally, plus the buyers costs (they'd bought a money order) and added 10% to the total for their inconvienience.
To tell a buyer you can't ship an item and they have to pay for the privilege of being let down is plain BS.

[Bill M]

UPS

I just called UPS International and here are their rules that have been in place for at least ten years according to the CSR.

INTERNATIONAL SHIPMENT RULES!

1. Weapons, particularly projectile weapons are on their proscribed list. Bows. Guns. Air-guns. No spears, swords, combat knives, martial arts weapons. Utility knives are ok. Tools are ok. Anything that was designed to kill, hurt or maim they do not want to ship.

2. Antiques worth over $100. If a loss or damage claim, you MUST have a previous-to-the-loss receipt from and "established gallery," or an appraisal. Emphasis on dated previous to the loss.. I asked, "What if I have good pictures and ask an expert to write a letter of value/appraisal? After the loss. He would be able to offer a very good opinion based on knowledge of similar objects."

Answer, "Entirely at our discretion."

3. Irreplaceable antiques - not covered.

I mentioned that I had received items marked "Art Object." He said that they sometimes open them, but the greater danger was from Customs.

That if they open a package marked "Art Object" and it turns out to be a sword, even an old fine one, Customs often decides "this is a sword" and you run the risk of delays, confiscation, complications depending on the country shipped from and to.

Though you may think your sword is an "art object" Customs applies what I call the "Duck Rule." "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck -- it is a duck" or sword.

The CSR was a real "can-do" guy. He suggested that I contact an archery supply company in Belgium and find out who they use to ship bows and arrows. I love helpful people like him!

Maybe Freddy will chime in here?

[Freddy]

I have just checked the site of the Belgian Post Office. They state that the maximum length (also tubes) they will ship, is 1m50. If your bow is longer, it is not possible to ship it in this way.
About other means of transport, I just don't know.
I think he tried to ship his parcel by using the Belgian Post. I looked it up and a shipment to the US by 'Kilopost International' (upto 5 kg) costs 26 Euro. That's about 30 $. Your seller probably got the package back.

The only problem is the length of the bow, I think. The seller has to choose another means of transport and this is probably much more expensive.

When I sell something, I always use the Belgian Post. I avoid selling items which are too big to send in this way. And if I do, it's 'pick up' only.

In my opinion, the seller should return the money to Bill. That's only fair.

[Rick]

I believe FEDEX has no compunctions about sharp and pointys; after all they shipped all our stuff to Macao and back .

One of my containers was opened by US Customs; full of swords, no problem .

Length might be an issue with FEDEX but we're talking what; five feet or so ?

EDIT

Just got off the phone w/FEDEX Intl .
No problems on your package size Bill !
Based on my description of a 10" dia tube 5' long that is .

It can be done .

[katana]

Hi Bill,
Sorry to hear about your problem.
I checked with my usual courier firm, to see the approx. cost from the UK. I stated the package size as 200cms x 15cms x 15cms with a weight of 4kgs (8.8 lbs) quoted price approx. £50 (around 81 USD) 1-3 days delivery with £32 insurance ( I think its another £4 for insurance to the value of £250).

$300 (£185) .....what a rip off Ok there are packing fees involved but .......

and what a cheek, expecting you to pay for his 'efforts' ....not impressed. I have sometimes misquoted 'shipping fees', but always to my detriment....but I have never asked for more money to compensate. In fact if something sells at a good price I always 'upgrade' the postage service.

The seller should be able to find a more competitive quote, and if ethical...should send to you at no extra cost.

Regards David

[VANDOO]

MAKE SURE YOU GET FEDEX FEES BEFORE YOU SHIP SOMETHING USING THEM THEIR PRICES ARE VERY HIGH. I HAD A VERY BAD EXPERIENCE. I WON TWO ITEMS FROM AN AUCTION IN AUSTRALIA I GOT THEM AT A GOOD PRICE AND CONTACTED THE AUCTION COMPANY THEY SAID THEY DID NOT MAKE SHIPPING ARANGEMENTS SO I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE MY OWN AND SHOULD HAVE READ ALL 200 PAGES OF THEIR SMALL PRINT LEGALEIZE.
I ASKED FOR SUGGESTIONS THEY SAID THEY WOULD PACK MY ITEMS FOR $36.00 PER BOX AND I COULD GET A FEDEX ACCOUNT AND THEY WOULD PICK IT UP FROM THEIR AUCTION HOUSE. I ASKED THEM TO PUT BOTH ITEMS IN ONE BOX THEY DID NOT AND CHARGED ME $72.00 . FEDEX SIGNED ME UP WITH AN ACCOUNT # AND SENT ME A LOT OF SHIPPING FORMS ECT AND GOT THE INFO AND WENT AND PICKED UP THE 2 PACKAGES AND DELIVERED THEM. I COULD FIND NO SHIPPING CHARGES ON MY INVOICE BUT AS THEY HAD MY CREDIT CARD INFO TO OPEN THE ACCOUNT IT SHOWED UP ON MY NEXT STATEMENT. IT WAS CLOSE TO $400.00 AND WHEN YOU ADDED THE $72.00 I PAYED WAY TOO MUCH FOR MY ITEMS. I HAD CONSIDERED THEM A BARGAIN EVEN WITH THE 20% BUYERS FEE FROM THE AUCTION HOUSE.
I DON'T LIKE TO READ AND DON'T UNDERSTAND LEAGLIZE SO READING 200 PAGES OF IT AND PROBABLY STILL GETTING HAD I NOW AVOID ONLINE AUCTIONS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. IF A DEAL SEEMS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT USUALLY IS.
NOT ALL AUCTIONS ARE LIKE THAT BUT IF ONE FOR INSTANCE STARTS CHARGEING A BUYERS FEE OR RAISES THEIRS FROM 20% T0 25% IT DOSEN'T TAKE LONG FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW SUIT. I HAVE ALSO SEEN OTHER AUCTIONS THAT HAVE ADOPTED THE YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SHIPPING ARANGEMENTS IN SMALL PRINT SO BEWARE.
THERE IS NOT MUCH PLEASURE IN HANDELING AN ITEM IN YOUR COLLECTION IF YOU HAVE BEEN HAD IT JUST REMINDS YOU OF THE DIRTY DEALINGS. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW AND EVERYONE DOES IT DOSEN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Ethnographic shipping question:

I bought some antique arrows and a bow (Papua New Guinea) from an eBay seller in Belgium. After several unanswered emails from me asking for tracking information (over a month-long period) he finally responded when I filed a PayPal dispute that I had not received the shipment.

Though his eBay advertised shipping price was about the same as similar arrows from Belgium, he told me that he now needed over FOUR times the advertised cost to ship them. From $75 to $300.

I suggested that he needed to send the arrows at the advertised amount or face a negative feedback strike, possibly a non-performing seller strike as well.

He just emailed me, stating that UPS Belgium (and DHL) has placed "arrows of any kind" on their "CAN NOT ENTER THE US" list, and that he can not ship at all. He wants to refund my money less $30 for "trying" to ship them.

I am asking if any of our Forum members in Europe, especially Belgium know about this? Are there and other carriers who would ship them?

The bow makes the package 180cm long and that seems to require a special carrier.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Bill,

300 seems to be an enourmous amount for the bow to ship.
Indeed the length of the bow is the problem. 150 cm in the max.
Otherwise you'll need indeed an express shipper like DHL.
I use always Skynet after I tried DHL,Fedex,UPC etc.
Their service is very good while the price is lower ( but not cheap)

about the arrows he shoul send them separate with normal post.
What I also did before is just remove the heads and ship sticks and heads separate.

you have a PM.

[Bill M]

The length is 180cm. small width and height.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I have just checked the site of the Belgian Post Office. They state that the maximum length (also tubes) they will ship, is 1m50. If your bow is longer, it is not possible to ship it in this way.
About other means of transport, I just don't know.
I think he tried to ship his parcel by using the Belgian Post. I looked it up and a shipment to the US by 'Kilopost International' (upto 5 kg) costs 26 Euro. That's about 30 $. Your seller probably got the package back.

The only problem is the length of the bow, I think. The seller has to choose another means of transport and this is probably much more expensive.

When I sell something, I always use the Belgian Post. I avoid selling items which are too big to send in this way. And if I do, it's 'pick up' only.

In my opinion, the seller should return the money to Bill. That's only fair.

Freddy, is 1m50 the same as 150cm? Seller did try to send it kilopost. Is there any other shipper who will take 180cm package?

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Freddy, is 1m50 the same as 150cm? Seller did try to send it kilopost. Is there any other shipper who will take 180cm package?

From an earlier post .

Just got off the phone w/FEDEX Intl .
No problems on your package size Bill !
Based on my description of a 10" dia tube 5' long that is

[fernando]

1mt50 or 150 cm is the same and is the limit for normal post envoy.
Let it be no doubt about that.
There are cases where people dismount weapons hafts and even recut them, in order to fall within such measurement.
Fenando

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Rick

From an earlier post .

Just got off the phone w/FEDEX Intl .
No problems on your package size Bill !
Based on my description of a 10" dia tube 5' long that is

Rick,

180 cm translates into 70.9 inches which is about 11 inches longer than 5' .

I'll check with FedEx if this size is within their limits?

The CSR at FedEX suggested I contact and archery shipper from Belgium and see who they use. I believe there must bt an answer here.

I have a freind in the Netherlands who thinks he could ship from there. I could have the Belgium shipper send it to him and he send it to me. Might cost a little more.

[Nonoy Tan]

Sorry to hear about the problem, Bill. I hope it gets sorted out.

Can over-sized packages be sent via others means, not air (e.g. surface mail, by sea and land), as the size restriction may differ depending on the type of transport being used?

[rand]

Just a thought. If he is close to Germany he could ship from there, they have an excellent postal system as does the US and the postal rate is much lower than either UPS or FedEx.

Recently sent a sword to Germany FedEx and it was about $300 shipping with no insurance. Some country's can have custom problems that using FedEx can really expidite delivery.

Advantage of UPS is they handle it at all times and the parcel is tracked but their rates are the highest. The downside is they try to negate any possible value for responsibility if they lose something.

Can be very confusing shipping internatinally. Except on flat rate USPS boxes I usually lose money shipping every time.

Did bring a rather long jousting lance from England to US once via cargo ship to save on shipping.

Have a feeling the Seller under estimated his shipping cost here and that may be the crux of the problem. Hope you are able to settle this problem and get your merchandise.

rand

[rand]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

MAKE SURE YOU GET FEDEX FEES BEFORE YOU SHIP SOMETHING USING THEM THEIR PRICES ARE VERY HIGH. I HAD A VERY BAD EXPERIENCE. I WON TWO ITEMS FROM AN AUCTION IN AUSTRALIA I GOT THEM AT A GOOD PRICE AND CONTACTED THE AUCTION COMPANY THEY SAID THEY DID NOT MAKE SHIPPING ARANGEMENTS SO I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE MY OWN AND SHOULD HAVE READ ALL 200 PAGES OF THEIR SMALL PRINT LEGALEIZE.
I ASKED FOR SUGGESTIONS THEY SAID THEY WOULD PACK MY ITEMS FOR $36.00 PER BOX AND I COULD GET A FEDEX ACCOUNT AND THEY WOULD PICK IT UP FROM THEIR AUCTION HOUSE. I ASKED THEM TO PUT BOTH ITEMS IN ONE BOX THEY DID NOT AND CHARGED ME $72.00 . FEDEX SIGNED ME UP WITH AN ACCOUNT # AND SENT ME A LOT OF SHIPPING FORMS ECT AND GOT THE INFO AND WENT AND PICKED UP THE 2 PACKAGES AND DELIVERED THEM. I COULD FIND NO SHIPPING CHARGES ON MY INVOICE BUT AS THEY HAD MY CREDIT CARD INFO TO OPEN THE ACCOUNT IT SHOWED UP ON MY NEXT STATEMENT. IT WAS CLOSE TO $400.00 AND WHEN YOU ADDED THE $72.00 I PAYED WAY TOO MUCH FOR MY ITEMS. I HAD CONSIDERED THEM A BARGAIN EVEN WITH THE 20% BUYERS FEE FROM THE AUCTION HOUSE.
I DON'T LIKE TO READ AND DON'T UNDERSTAND LEAGLIZE SO READING 200 PAGES OF IT AND PROBABLY STILL GETTING HAD I NOW AVOID ONLINE AUCTIONS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. IF A DEAL SEEMS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT USUALLY IS.
NOT ALL AUCTIONS ARE LIKE THAT BUT IF ONE FOR INSTANCE STARTS CHARGEING A BUYERS FEE OR RAISES THEIRS FROM 20% T0 25% IT DOSEN'T TAKE LONG FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW SUIT. I HAVE ALSO SEEN OTHER AUCTIONS THAT HAVE ADOPTED THE YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SHIPPING ARANGEMENTS IN SMALL PRINT SO BEWARE.
THERE IS NOT MUCH PLEASURE IN HANDELING AN ITEM IN YOUR COLLECTION IF YOU HAVE BEEN HAD IT JUST REMINDS YOU OF THE DIRTY DEALINGS. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW AND EVERYONE DOES IT DOSEN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

Hey Vandoo,

The fees do not sound too bad to me. $36 packing for each piece seems reasonable, its just a shame they put it in two parcels. They may pack seperately to protect themselves if the parcel is lost in shipping.

Have been hosed far worse by Herman Historica, its really important to find out in advance what handling, packing and shipping fees are when dealing with an auction house. Personally I like it when they use something like a UPS store and not have an auction handling fee for packing.

Always expect it to cost more than you think.... sort of like auction house estimate for auction value, its almost always go's for more.

rand

[KuKulzA28]

this may not be helpful at all but I just noticed this on eBay [active auction link deleted] he's from Maine, USA.

[Rick]

I'm sorry, but you failed to read the rules about posting active auctions .
There is an automatic 10 day suspension for this violation .
See you in 10 days .

[Bill M]

Tried to warn him.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Rick

I believe FEDEX has no compunctions about sharp and pointys; after all they shipped all our stuff to Macao and back .

One of my containers was opened by US Customs; full of swords, no problem .

Length might be an issue with FEDEX but we're talking what; five feet or so ?

EDIT

Just got off the phone w/FEDEX Intl .
No problems on your package size Bill !
Based on my description of a 10" dia tube 5' long that is .

It can be done .

No length issues with Fedex for reference sake. The Chinese polearm I have posted is currently in transit with fedex and it is 8'4''long. Just keep in mind that they will calculate weight at it's cubed weight if it is heavier.

Gav

[Bill M]

I am not sure if the problem lay with Fedex, UPS, and DHL in Belgium, but when I called these three companies, they universally said, "We don't ship weapons internationally!"

Gav, perhaps they don't really know what a Chinese Pole Arm is? In the southern USA a skunk is called a "pole-cat."

But if you had labeled it a "spear," or "Chinese Weapon," you might have had a problem.

So I have an antique farming tool -- that looks remarkably like a panabas, and an antique fishing rod -- that looks remarkably like a bow, on the way to me.



Here INSIDE the USA it is quite different!

I just got an 1887 Winchester Lever Action 10 guage shotgun delivered by UPS USA. They did have to send the ammunition in a separate box. All legal and happy!

FYI most guns made before 1900 are considered "antiques" and you don't need special licensing to ship and receive.

[A. G. Maisey]

On the subject of names used in shipping weaponry.

Over a thirty year period, shipping out of Australia to various overseas destinations, I have found that it is not a real good idea to label knives as knives, daggers as daggers, or swords as swords.

It is more likely to result in a no problems transit to destination if that 18th century Indian dagger is named on the customs declaration as :- one pesh kabz, a south Asian cultural artifact made of metal and stone and dating from the 18th century.

An English bowie knife becomes :- a 19th century cutting tool of English origin

-----and so on.

The description must be absolutely correct, but should not use emotive words such as "knife", "sword", "dagger".


Regretably knives, swords and daggers also seem to suffer from pilferage in some countries, so using a term that does not tell a prospective thief exactly what is in the package is added protection, especially for countries that do not provide a postal insurance cover.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

I am not sure if the problem lay with Fedex, UPS, and DHL in Belgium, but when I called these three companies, they universally said, "We don't ship weapons internationally!"

Gav, perhaps they don't really know what a Chinese Pole Arm is? In the southern USA a skunk is called a "pole-cat."

But if you had labeled it a "spear," or "Chinese Weapon," you might have had a problem.

So I have an antique farming tool -- that looks remarkably like a panabas, and an antique fishing rod -- that looks remarkably like a bow, on the way to me.



Here INSIDE the USA it is quite different!

I just got an 1887 Winchester Lever Action 10 guage shotgun delivered by UPS USA. They did have to send the ammunition in a separate box. All legal and happy!

FYI most guns made before 1900 are considered "antiques" and you don't need special licensing to ship and receive.

G'day Bill,

I hope it does sort itself out, it was noted on my customs and fedex paperwork as a Chinese sword. I find it unusual that you received this response, I have bought from some very large arms specialist auction houses in the USA and they all shipped Fedex???

Gav