War engineering in 1466: From Roberto Valturio's DE RE MILITARI

Matchlock · 23rd September 2008, 08:24 PM

A huge siege artillery tower in the shape of a dragon (remember the Trojan horse), firing an incendiary arrow, and other devices, such as a gun mount, catapult and hoist.

Michael

Jim McDougall · 23rd September 2008, 10:36 PM

The engineering of these siege engines is pretty amazing, and the mention of the 'Trojan Horse' as well as the image of the dragon figure on the example pictured, brings to mind a question.
Were these huge devices actually designed with such artistic imagery, or possibly just described metaphorically?
It seems that many weapons' components are described with reference to similarities to animal or other descriptive terms, i.e. monkey tail etc. and if I recall, there is question on the actual existence of the Trojan Horse itself.

Just wondering,

Matchlock · 23rd September 2008, 11:52 PM

Hi Jim,

Good question, as I had expected.

The fact just jumped to my mind that in late Gothic and Renaissance times, weapons, especially cannon, were given animal names, such as the huge main piece (Hauptstück) of the Maximilian artillery, der Leu (lion), but they were also called dragons and named after reptiles (Eidechse, Schlänglein = little serpent) and birds: Taube (dove), Blaumeise etc. They often even came in pairs: Löw' und Löwin, Hirsch und Hindin.

Again, as you say: Nobody knows whether the Trojan horse actually existed or is a mere outcome of Ancient Greek poetry, and nobody can tell whether Valturio's futuristic machines (and Leonardo's fantastic drafts) ever existed in reality either.

Michael

23rd September 2008, 08:24 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	War engineering in 1466: From Roberto Valturio's DE RE MILITARI A huge siege artillery tower in the shape of a dragon (remember the Trojan horse), firing an incendiary arrow, and other devices, such as a gun mount, catapult and hoist. Michael Attached Images

23rd September 2008, 10:36 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,951	The engineering of these siege engines is pretty amazing, and the mention of the 'Trojan Horse' as well as the image of the dragon figure on the example pictured, brings to mind a question. Were these huge devices actually designed with such artistic imagery, or possibly just described metaphorically? It seems that many weapons' components are described with reference to similarities to animal or other descriptive terms, i.e. monkey tail etc. and if I recall, there is question on the actual existence of the Trojan Horse itself. Just wondering,

23rd September 2008, 11:52 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jim, Good question, as I had expected. The fact just jumped to my mind that in late Gothic and Renaissance times, weapons, especially cannon, were given animal names, such as the huge main piece (Hauptstück) of the Maximilian artillery, der Leu (lion), but they were also called dragons and named after reptiles (Eidechse, Schlänglein = little serpent) and birds: Taube (dove), Blaumeise etc. They often even came in pairs: Löw' und Löwin, Hirsch und Hindin. Again, as you say: Nobody knows whether the Trojan horse actually existed or is a mere outcome of Ancient Greek poetry, and nobody can tell whether Valturio's futuristic machines (and Leonardo's fantastic drafts) ever existed in reality either. Michael