Korean swords

drdavid · 26th August 2008, 12:15 PM

http://www.swordsofkorea.com/
I found this site today, and as I have not seen it mentioned before and it did not seem to turn up using the forum search, I thought it may be of interest to forum folk
cheers
Drd

Jim McDougall · 27th August 2008, 05:25 AM

A very interesting topic indeed Drd!! Thank you for posting this.
The subject of Korean swords is extremely esoteric and the weapons themselves most elusive. I recall looking for a Korean sword of any kind for years unsuccessfully. In one instance which proved most interesting, I noticed one of the occasionally seen ads where a distinguished gentleman from Japan would set up in a local hotel, and offered free appraisals on Japanese swords. This was of course a 'sweep' to obtain authentic Samurai weapons taken at the end of WWII.

I spoke to the gentleman through an interpreter, and even showed him a photo of a Korean sword hilt (one with the octagonal guard). He pushed away the photo and was not only reluctant to look at it, but refused to discuss any further, insisting he had no idea what 'that' sword was.

Apparantly Korean swords are extremely rare, and most were confiscated and destroyed during the occupation of Korea by Japan from 1910-1945. The examples known are typically referred to as either Chosun dynasty (Joseon) as seen in the site posted here, or as Yi dynasty, both referring to the same 'period' which extends from 1392-1910.

The only reference work known to have been published in English is:
"Korean Weapons and Armor" by J.L. Boots in
"Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society" Vol.XXIV, Dec. 1934, pt.II

This and other weapons research on Chinese weapons was naturally tremendously impacted by geopolitical events of the 1930's and WWII, and fortunately these limited references survived.

The only other references I have seen are in the work of Philip Tom and Scott Rodell, which offer outstanding descriptions, in addition to this most interesting site.

Now the question is...anybody out there have something Korean to post!!??

chevalier · 27th August 2008, 06:00 AM

"Apparantly Korean swords are extremely rare, and most were confiscated and destroyed during the occupation of Korea by China from 1910-1945."

im assuming you mean japan

Jim McDougall · 27th August 2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevalier

"Apparantly Korean swords are extremely rare, and most were confiscated and destroyed during the occupation of Korea by China from 1910-1945

im assuming you mean japan

Thanks Chevalier for catching my fox paws

!!! Good save, and I done fixed it,

All the best,
Jim

Jeff Pringle · 11th September 2008, 05:15 PM

This sword showed up recently on ebay, and was described as a 19th Century Korean blade. It did not attract much interest, perhaps because it did not look particularly 19th C. nor much like the Korean examples from the History of Steel exhibit cited as similar. I figured it was a decorative copy of Korean sword, but threw a bid at it anyway because a friend of mine is studying Kuk Sool Won and has been badgering me and another swordsmith for a Korean sword with which she can do the sword forms of that martial art, and I figured there might be some useful info to be gleaned from even a decorative copy.
The auction ended with my bid on top, and when the sword arrived I was pleasantly surprised to find the blade not only heat treated, but also made of folded steel! The heat treating is of what I presume to be a distinctive Korean style, one that I have only noticed in the few historic Korean blades whose images are on line. The hardened edge starts well above the hilt, and as it approaches the point it dips down towards the edge and stays close as it sweeps around the point of the blade. This style of tempering would almost guarantee that your sword would not snap off at the hilt or lose its point in battle, though I bet you’d find it more likely to take a bend down by the hilt if the blade were subject to lateral forces. It would be interesting to find out if Korean martial arts take this style of heat treating into account in the way the sword is used, especially in comparison to the martial arts of cultures that have a more uniform heat treating style.
Due to the simplified blade geometry & construction as compared to authentically old Korean swords, as well as the character of the steel, I suspect this is an example of a revivalist Korean sword maker’s work, from the 1960s or 1970s…however there is not much info out there to help confirm or deny this suspicion. If anyone finds a reference that has info on Korean swords like this one, dao-based geometry without a collar on the base of the blade, it would help me place this one in its proper history.

Gavin Nugent · 6th May 2011, 11:43 PM

Thought I'd bring this ole thread back to life with an example recently found.
Named and dated too, a little rough around the edges but overall a fine piece.
All steel fittings are silver inlayed, all parts present except for the throat fitting.....a cleaning project for later in the year.

Nathaniel · 7th May 2011, 01:59 AM

Interesting Korean sword Gavin! It is always interesting to see such rare swords that show an interesting blend of the influences of their neighbors China and Japan!

Nathaniel · 7th May 2011, 02:08 AM

Just thought too I would cite the Korea section from the Macau exhibit History of Steel in Eastern Asia

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel/koreanarticle.htm
http://www.arscives.com/historysteel....swordlist.htm

laEspadaAncha · 7th May 2011, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Interesting Korean sword Gavin! It is always interesting to see such rare swords that show an interesting blend of the influences of their neighbors China and Japan!

You stole the words right out of my mouth (or type right out of my keyboard?)...

The hibaki, ito and menuki (and to a lessor degree the blade profile, tsuba and seppa) all show a strong kinship to their Japanese counterpart, while the pommel and scabbard appear distinctly Chinese.

Gav, I'd be interested in seeing some close-ups of the blade steel, and to hearing your thoughts on the bladesmithing...

Nathaniel · 7th May 2011, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

You stole the words right out of my mouth (or type right out of my keyboard?)...

The hibaki, ito and menuki (and to a lessor degree the blade profile, tsuba and seppa) all show a strong kinship to their Japanese counterpart, while the pommel and scabbard appear distinctly Chinese.

Gav, I'd be interested in seeing some close-ups of the blade steel, and to hearing your thoughts on the bladesmithing...

My thoughts exactly! Quit being such a tease!!! Let's get down to the quick and dirty and see some intimate shots of the steel!!!

Gavin Nugent · 7th May 2011, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

My thoughts exactly! Quit teasing us! Let's see some intimate shots of the steel!!!

Patience grasshopper

It wont be this week coming but I will try a small window etch to see what gives...I'd love to think it has a horse tooth pattern like one found in the initial link but I'll have to wait....the blade is I think is just a very finely laminated pattern.
It is a stout blade at 67cms long and would take the leg off a horse that is for sure....

laEspadaAncha · 7th May 2011, 05:37 AM

Any idea if these are built to disassemble modularly like a katana?

Gavin Nugent · 7th May 2011, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Any idea if these are built to disassemble modularly like a katana?

This example is made in the Chinese manner being the tang through the pommel to secure it.
In this piece it is the blade, then the habaki, a seppa, guard/tsuba, another seppa, iron collar, the hilt slabs, the pommel, a small washer and peened tang. Grips bound in painted ray skin, grip cord in the Japanese manner with the menuki to each side in Japanese manner. There is a lanyard through the grips and I imagine the tang too.

Gavin Nugent · 7th May 2011, 02:49 PM

An interesting point I thought was worth noting is the presence of what in the past was called a brick; see post 1 in this thread started by Bill M;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hinese+pitting

The interesting thing is, this sword only has one that is able to be seen in the current polish but why it is seen is that it looks to have never been filled. I am uncertain why it is there as there is little wrong with the polish surface, it appears all original???

Image to follow with further updated.

26th August 2008, 12:15 PM	#1
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Korean swords http://www.swordsofkorea.com/ I found this site today, and as I have not seen it mentioned before and it did not seem to turn up using the forum search, I thought it may be of interest to forum folk cheers Drd

27th August 2008, 05:25 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	A very interesting topic indeed Drd!! Thank you for posting this. The subject of Korean swords is extremely esoteric and the weapons themselves most elusive. I recall looking for a Korean sword of any kind for years unsuccessfully. In one instance which proved most interesting, I noticed one of the occasionally seen ads where a distinguished gentleman from Japan would set up in a local hotel, and offered free appraisals on Japanese swords. This was of course a 'sweep' to obtain authentic Samurai weapons taken at the end of WWII. I spoke to the gentleman through an interpreter, and even showed him a photo of a Korean sword hilt (one with the octagonal guard). He pushed away the photo and was not only reluctant to look at it, but refused to discuss any further, insisting he had no idea what 'that' sword was. Apparantly Korean swords are extremely rare, and most were confiscated and destroyed during the occupation of Korea by Japan from 1910-1945. The examples known are typically referred to as either Chosun dynasty (Joseon) as seen in the site posted here, or as Yi dynasty, both referring to the same 'period' which extends from 1392-1910. The only reference work known to have been published in English is: "Korean Weapons and Armor" by J.L. Boots in "Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society" Vol.XXIV, Dec. 1934, pt.II This and other weapons research on Chinese weapons was naturally tremendously impacted by geopolitical events of the 1930's and WWII, and fortunately these limited references survived. The only other references I have seen are in the work of Philip Tom and Scott Rodell, which offer outstanding descriptions, in addition to this most interesting site. Now the question is...anybody out there have something Korean to post!!?? Last edited by Jim McDougall; 27th August 2008 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Thanks Chevalier!!! I did mean Japan :)

11th September 2008, 05:15 PM	#5
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	This sword showed up recently on ebay, and was described as a 19th Century Korean blade. It did not attract much interest, perhaps because it did not look particularly 19th C. nor much like the Korean examples from the History of Steel exhibit cited as similar. I figured it was a decorative copy of Korean sword, but threw a bid at it anyway because a friend of mine is studying Kuk Sool Won and has been badgering me and another swordsmith for a Korean sword with which she can do the sword forms of that martial art, and I figured there might be some useful info to be gleaned from even a decorative copy. The auction ended with my bid on top, and when the sword arrived I was pleasantly surprised to find the blade not only heat treated, but also made of folded steel! The heat treating is of what I presume to be a distinctive Korean style, one that I have only noticed in the few historic Korean blades whose images are on line. The hardened edge starts well above the hilt, and as it approaches the point it dips down towards the edge and stays close as it sweeps around the point of the blade. This style of tempering would almost guarantee that your sword would not snap off at the hilt or lose its point in battle, though I bet you’d find it more likely to take a bend down by the hilt if the blade were subject to lateral forces. It would be interesting to find out if Korean martial arts take this style of heat treating into account in the way the sword is used, especially in comparison to the martial arts of cultures that have a more uniform heat treating style. Due to the simplified blade geometry & construction as compared to authentically old Korean swords, as well as the character of the steel, I suspect this is an example of a revivalist Korean sword maker’s work, from the 1960s or 1970s…however there is not much info out there to help confirm or deny this suspicion. If anyone finds a reference that has info on Korean swords like this one, dao-based geometry without a collar on the base of the blade, it would help me place this one in its proper history. Attached Images

6th May 2011, 11:43 PM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Well I got one! Thought I'd bring this ole thread back to life with an example recently found. Named and dated too, a little rough around the edges but overall a fine piece. All steel fittings are silver inlayed, all parts present except for the throat fitting.....a cleaning project for later in the year. Attached Images

7th May 2011, 02:49 PM	#14
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	An interesting point An interesting point I thought was worth noting is the presence of what in the past was called a brick; see post 1 in this thread started by Bill M; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hinese+pitting The interesting thing is, this sword only has one that is able to be seen in the current polish but why it is seen is that it looks to have never been filled. I am uncertain why it is there as there is little wrong with the polish surface, it appears all original??? Image to follow with further updated.

27th August 2008, 06:00 AM	#3
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	"Apparantly Korean swords are extremely rare, and most were confiscated and destroyed during the occupation of Korea by China from 1910-1945." im assuming you mean japan

7th May 2011, 01:59 AM	#7
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Interesting Korean sword Gavin! It is always interesting to see such rare swords that show an interesting blend of the influences of their neighbors China and Japan!

7th May 2011, 02:08 AM	#8
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Just thought too I would cite the Korea section from the Macau exhibit History of Steel in Eastern Asia http://www.arscives.com/historysteel/koreanarticle.htm http://www.arscives.com/historysteel....swordlist.htm

7th May 2011, 05:37 AM	#12
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Any idea if these are built to disassemble modularly like a katana?