Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 8th August 2008, 04:38 PM   #1
mykeris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Default Keris Pucuk Rebung versus Junjung Drajat

I would appreciate if our Malay-Bugis or Indonesian keris collectors could explain or clarify differences between bugis pamor 'Pucuk Rebung' and Javanese 'Junjung Derajat' ! Are they the same or entirely different? Thanks in advance.
mykeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th August 2008, 05:09 AM   #2
PenangsangII
Member
 
PenangsangII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 401
Default

I've been wondering about this too. Also, the difference between these two and raja kam-kam. And what about satriya pinayungan? They all look almost the same.
PenangsangII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th August 2008, 03:36 PM   #3
mykeris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Default

Thanks for your posting, Penangsang11..I appreciate that.

Probably, the term Pucuk Rebung is quite alien to some but highly talked after in the Malaysian eastcoast states of Kelantan dan Trengganu. According to some, Pucuk Rebung (bamboo-shoot) is a kind of rekan pamor on bugis keris and is totally rare. This pamor is almost similar to the Javanese/Madurese Junjung Derajat or may I say Pamor Gunung(pls correct me if I am wrong). I always encounter with this pamor only on Javanese keris but not Bugis or any Malay kerises.

I would appreciate, if our collectors (if you happen to have one) could post photos of Bugis keris that incorporate this kind of highly demanded pamor.
mykeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2008, 04:04 AM   #4
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykeris
Probably, the term Pucuk Rebung is quite alien to some but highly talked after in the Malaysian eastcoast states of Kelantan dan Trengganu. According to some, Pucuk Rebung (bamboo-shoot) is a kind of rekan pamor on bugis keris and is totally rare. This pamor is almost similar to the Javanese/Madurese Junjung Derajat or may I say Pamor Gunung(pls correct me if I am wrong). I always encounter with this pamor only on Javanese keris but not Bugis or any Malay kerises.

I would appreciate, if our collectors (if you happen to have one) could post photos of Bugis keris that incorporate this kind of highly demanded pamor.
I have a bugis-blade, with hopefully such pamor. But I don't stain the blade, as do javanese blades. Is this pamor in sor-soran "pucuk rebung" you mean?

Yes, literally "rebung" means "bamboo-shoot" in Javanese too. Bamboo-sprout. Usually people in Java said "mucuk rebung" as a shape or form of something that seems like bamboo-shoot. The tip of something -- including kerises -- could be "mucuk rebung".

In Javanese, we have some pamor like this: ujung gunung or (if through the ganja either) raja kam kam in Madura. We have still, raja abala raja -- similar to ujung gunung, but like more than one top of mountain (I can't describe precisely in English, I'm sorry...), and pandita-bala-pandita (more specific, but quite similar to raja abala raja).

Satria pinayungan, never exist in the sor-soran, but only in upper middle, or near the tip of the keris.
Attached Images
 
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2008, 05:32 AM   #5
mykeris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Default

Thanks Ganjawulung for posting this great keris, I think thats it!.... but on the second thought... it could be different...pls refer to this diagram whick I found today in a Malay keris book. TQ
Attached Images
     

Last edited by mykeris; 12th August 2008 at 06:20 AM.
mykeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th August 2008, 01:08 PM   #6
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,225
Default something to compare

Something that looks pretty the same to me, but that is called Raja abala Raja in a previous thread
Attached Images
 
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 01:05 AM   #7
mykeris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Default

Thanks Asomotif, I think somehow it has similarities but having more fine details compared to the diagram. Its really beautiful.
mykeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 04:57 AM   #8
PenangsangII
Member
 
PenangsangII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 401
Default

Mykeris, from my limited understanding, the illustration you provided that was referred to as pamor "Pucuk Rebung" is Jawanese equivalent to Raja Abala Raja.

Pak Ganjawulung, the "Ujung Gunung" and "Raja Kam-kam" that you described, were they pamor titipan / rekan or tiban? I thought ujung gunung was pamor tiban as that of satriya pinayungan (judging from physical inspection). Could you or any other keris knowledgebles elaborate further. I'm still confused.
PenangsangII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 06:40 AM   #9
sipakatuo
Member
 
sipakatuo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
Default

IMHO this kind of pamor in Bugis we called 'TIMPA LAJANA' a symbol of 'DATU DATU' / high status.
sipakatuo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2008, 07:04 AM   #10
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenangsangII
Pak Ganjawulung, the "Ujung Gunung" and "Raja Kam-kam" that you described, were they pamor titipan / rekan or tiban? I thought ujung gunung was pamor tiban as that of satriya pinayungan (judging from physical inspection). Could you or any other keris knowledgebles elaborate further. I'm still confused.
Dear Penangsang,
"Ujung Gunung" pamor (top of the mountain), IMHO is one type of "rekan" (engineered) pamor, but "satria pinayungan" (a draped over knight?), yes, it is the type of "tiban" (unexpected, surprised) kind of pamor.

I try to show you below, two blades -- one straight and the other curved -- with "adeg" pamor but with "junjung drajat" on the tip of the blade. (With close ups), and one blade with "satria pinayungan" in the middle of the blade. People may even call a pamor that crossed the blade as a "kendhit" pamor too. But, kendit with "broken" line -- forming kind of mountain top -- we call it as "satria pinayungan"... I hope you understand what I mean (sorry for my limited ability in explaining you in English...)

GANJAWULUNG
Attached Images
     
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2008, 11:27 AM   #11
Newsteel
Member
 
Newsteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 132
Default

Maybe this drawings (get from web) might help. Again, this is the javanese pamor terms.





The closest of "Pamor pucuk rebung" would be Ujung Gunung (javanese).
Some pamor have different names but actually refer to the same thing (design/motives). Example : Buntel mayit (javanese), tambangan badung (lombok/bali) and lilit ubi (malay). Batu lapak (javanese) and Tapak gajah (malay). Untu walang (javanese) and gigi yu (malay), etc...
Attached Images
 
Newsteel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2008, 12:30 AM   #12
mykeris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Default Thanks for all your postings

Thanks to all dear forumites posting to this forum. Its really a clear explaination by you all.

Thanks again,
Mykeris.
mykeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.