Long Moro Twistcore spear

[Bill M]

This is the longest Moro spear I ever saw.

Overall: Eight feet, Seven inches --- 261.6cm in length
Spear head is 17 inches --- 43.2cm
Ferrule is 9 1/2 inches --- 24.1cm

There is a strange iron loop at the butt end. Any ideas?

[Bill]

"There is a strange iron loop at the butt end. Any ideas?" I guess the spear could be carried spearhead to the ground & a banner on it but seems unlikely they would need an iron loop for that. I would guess it it ment for a cord so if thrown at sea it could be recovered. Interesting & nice find.

[VANDOO]

A VERY NICE SPEAR I HAVE NOT SEEN A LOOP BEFORE BUT IT DOES APPEAR THAT THE STEEL LOOP ON THE BUTT OF THE SPEAR SHAFT WAS INTENDED FOR ATTACHING A SUBSTANTIAL SIZE LINE SO IT COULD BE RETRIVED.
TWO POSSIBILITYS COME TO MIND RETREVING IT WHEN THROWN INTO THE WATER AS MENTIONED OR RETREVING IT IF THROWN FROM A FORTIFICATION AT AN ENEMY.
THE EXTRA LONG SPEAR WOULD BE GOOD FOR DEFENDING AN APPROACH ALONG A LOW WALL AND IF THE ENEMY WAS STAYING JUST OUT OF REACH OF A THRUST IT COULD BE THROWN AND THEN QUICKLY RETRIEVED PERHAPS PULLING THE ENEMY INTO RANGE OF OTHERS SPEARS IN THE PROCESS.
JUST LOGICAL GUESSES. PERHAPS THERE ARE SOME RECORDS SOMEWHERE OF ITS USE AS THERE WERE PLENTY OF BATTLES THRUOUT MORO HISTORY TO READ ABOUT.

[Rick]

I'd figure that to be more a throwing spear judging from it's length .
Very pretty example Bill .

In a marine combat environment the ability to retrieve the weapon is a definite plus .
I suspect some spears would even sink .

[Battara]

One of the nicest twist core budiak spears I have seen!

With all that silver I doubt it was for combat but more for court or datu show.

Must admit the butt does throw me for a loop!

[Nonoy Tan]

Here is another moro spear butt with a "loop."

[Tim Simmons]

Nonoy, any chance of a look at the whole spear. Just a suggestion, a fixed cord at the loop and a sliding knot on the haft. The cord over your shoulder so that if you loose your grip you have not lost your weapon. All assuming they are heavy spears not really for throwing. Just a suggestion.

[David]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

All assuming they are heavy spears not really for throwing.

I was wondering this myself. We all seem to automatically think of a spear as a projectile, but i do believe that their are many martial forms where the spear never leaves the hand.
I also agree that a spear like this (silver fittings and twisted core) is even less likely to ever leave the hand of it's owner.

[David]

...and BTW Bill, just lovely it is...

[A. G. Maisey]

How about to increase force of thrust?

If you attach a cord to the butt end of a spear, wind a few turns around the shaft, then wind the other end of the cord around your hand, and position the hand further up the shaft at point of balance, you have effectively increased leverage allowing a heavier thrust, or alternatively, the handling of a heavier than normal weight weapon. The turns around the shaft provide spin, giving stabilisation.In a projectile weapon the cord acts as a spear thrower, in a weapon not intended to be thrown it allows a heavier thrust and a loose hand thrust to the end of the shaft, giving longer reach.

[katana]

Very ...very nice spear......I would never throw it...so why attach a cord to retrieve it

Regards

[Ferguson]

Beautiful! What a specimen.
Steve

[kino]

It's just lovely, Bill.

[CharlesS]

Gorgeous example, but I agree with Battara and doubt it was ever meant for serious combat, and I am betting its weight makes it a cumbersome "thrower".

[Lew]

Bill

very sweet spear. I agree it's way too long and heavy to be a thrower it seems to me a better longer distance jabber.

Lew

[A. G. Maisey]

I do not know anything about Moro weaponry, but I do have considerable background in Javanese and Balinese weaponry.

In these cultures a spear intended to be used in the hand and not thrown usually has a much more substantial shaft than this one, a shaft that swells in the mid point to afford better grip.

I agree that the quality of the blade of this spear could indicate a weapon used on ceremonial occasions, however the narrow section shaft seems more to indicate a thrown weapon.

The Roman pilum was a heavy thrown spear that weighed up to 8.5 pounds, and could travel 90 feet or so.

Cord spear throwers are well known and widely spread. Use of cord spear throwers is recorded in the Pacific region.

http://www.nma.gov.au/cook/artefact.php?id=337


http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/8682/jav.htm


http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...20thrower?r=14


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum

[Bill M]

I agree with Alan.

There is another twist here. The ferrule next to the spear head appears to be a good quality silver. However the ferrule holding the loop looks to be brass and does not match the silver ferrule in material, design or quality.

Could this have been added later?

For what it is worth, the end with the loop is horn.

I had quite a cleaning job to do on this piece. The ferrule and spear head were soaked with yellow coating, perhaps shellac? I was pleasantly surprised by the silver.

[Rick]

A confession of sorts; I have thrown my Mandaya spears (9 feet loa) a few times .
The targets were compressed bales of peat moss .
From 35 feet away the spear went completely through the bale every time .

Seems the mass really helps with penetration .

My two Moro fighting spears are more like six feet long; much easier IMHO to handle with a shield .

[VANDOO]

LEE HAS A VERY NICE EXAMPLE PROBABLY AROUND 8 FEET LONG THAT WAS PROBABLY USED MOSTLY AS A HAND THRUSTING SPEAR WITH SHIELD. ITS BALANCE AND TAPER ALSO WOULD HAVE MADE IT A GOOD SHORT RANGE THROWING SPEAR, BUT IT WAS TOO NICE FOR ITS OWNER TO HAVE JUST THROWN IT WITHOUT WORRING ABOUT GETTING IT BACK. I SUSPECT IF THROWN THE WARRIOR WOULD BE CLOSING RAPIDLY SWORD DRAWN TO FINNISH HIS ENEMY AND RECLAIM HIS SPEAR. JUST AS LEE WOULD DO IF I TRYED TO RUN OFF WITH HIS SPEAR

IF THE MORO HAD SPEARS ONLY FOR THROWING, I SUSPECT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD SMALLER LESS ELABORATE POINTS AND SHORTER LIGHTER CANE, BAMBOO OR RATTAN SHAFTS. THE COST OF MAKEING SUCH SPEARS WOULD BE MUCH LESS AND PERHAPS SEVERAL COULD BE CARRIED AND THROWN BEFORE CLOSING IN WITH THE STRONGER HEAVIER FIGHTING SPEAR ,SHIELD AND SWORD. JUST A GUESS AS I HAVE NOT READ UP ON SPECIFIC MORO FIGHTING TECKNIQUES OR IF I DID, HAVE FORGOTTEN BY NOW .

[Rick]

Well, to look at this another way; if you threw your spear or even took it into close combat; either you would be returning victorious with your weapon , or you would have no further need of it ...

[Bill M]

Pictures of one of my other Moro spears. This one is about six feet long. It has a bronze ferrule, but also has the four "rings" on it, like the silver ferrule. Wonder if this is standard to budiaks?

It also has a hole in the butt end. I wonder is it once had a loop also? Hole seems to be at least 4 inches deep.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sometimes I get mighty pissed-off with myself.

I'm always telling people that I hate hypothesis without evidence or logical support and here I have been engaging in childish playing with random ideas instead of doing what I should have done in the first place:- gotten off of my fat butt and used my brain.

Reference :- Smithsonian Institution, United States National Museum Bulletin137, The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armour of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum, Herbert W. Krieger, Washington Government Printing Office 1926. Pages 49-52.

Too much to quote here, but these spears with long thin shafts and the provision for fixation of a cord are most likely to be hunting spears,used as harpoons, not war spears.

The spear-thrower was unknown in the Philippine Islands.

If nothing else, I think this error of mine has clearly demonstrated how ridiculous it is to hypothesize on something about which one knows nothing.

[Battara]

I have seen a type of Moro lance work demonstrated before, although I think it was more influenced by Pencat Silat than by Moro masters. STill these lances were not made for throwing. Throwing was for other spears.

[Nonoy Tan]

Tim, the spear in the photo was in a museum display. I was absent-minded and forgot to take a full photo of the spear Here is all I have, including another moro spear with a similar butt end.