Philippine Dagger for ID and Comment

moose · 11th March 2005, 05:07 PM

Well I thought the Kris thread was getting too long so I thought I would start a fresh one.

Following that thread. Here's the next piece in my collection. It's a nice dagger, got a real nice heft and feel. Looks to be a bone hilt done in the form of a horse's leg. But I'm not sure about the bone.
When I cleaned it up and did a hot sun/lime juice etch the differential hardening line showed up and some purple, blues and gold.

The blade is 9 5/8" long. 15" overall. It's 9/32" at the hilt. It's square from the hilt for 4" and the last 5" the square edges are rounded over.

You can't really see it in the pommel picture but it appears to be peened over. hit it at least 7 times. Anyway a nice nutcracker on the end.

Finally, I'm not sure if you can see it well but there are 5 direct cuts/nicks on the right side and a good one on the left plus many little dings. Maybe some live blade training or actual use.

Anyway I got this in a trade from a friend who had a girlfriend who lived next to an old gal who husband had been in the war.

You know one of those stories.
I got this one and the bolo people here described as being from Luzon at the same time.

Would appreciate your comments.

moose

moose · 11th March 2005, 05:11 PM

Here's the picture of the nicks and one of the Luzon bolo.

Would appreciate your comments,

moose

Ferguson · 11th March 2005, 05:12 PM

Man, that is gorgeous. Love the bone? hilt.

Steve

Ian · 11th March 2005, 05:17 PM

Hi Moose:

This one is also from Luzon. The full tang construction and hilt shape are typical of northern Philippines (Tagalog) work. I associate that particular hilt form with parts of northern Luzon (the Ilocos area or Baguio), and the area just north of Manila (Pampanga, Angelos City, Bataan, etc.). This is a fairly common style of hilt post WWII, and GIs stationed at Subic Bay and Clark AFB brought them back in the thousands.

Your knife seems to be one of the nicer ones. You gave it a long hard etch which is why you see so much blue on the blade.

Nice piece. Luzon — second half of the 20th C.

Ian.

moose · 11th March 2005, 05:37 PM

Steve,

Thank you, I like it too!

It's solid and razor sharp. You could use it and it wouldn't let you down. I like that a lot in the blades I collect. Yours sure fit's the bill too!

Ian,

Thank you for your comments.
You said "You gave it a long hard etch which is why you see so much blue on the blade."
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Is it something to expect with other types of etching? (vinegar, arsenic, ferric stuff from Radio Shack) etc.

Have some other etching to do and want as much info going in as possible.

thanks,

moose

Federico · 12th March 2005, 01:59 AM

Coloring during the etch will depend on a couple of things, the composition of the steel, and to a lesser extent the type of acid used to etch. In my experience etching, I have not seen time as being as big a factor of coloration (eg. color vs degree of intensity). The longer the etch, of course the greater the build up of oxides providing a more intense coloration (in a severe case completely blackening a blade), but nothing that will fundamentally change the color/hue, eg. from black to grey to blue, etc... When I etch, I normally do a number of short etching sessions. After the blade is cleaned of grease/dirt buildup, I normally start with a lemon etch, mainly to clean the blade, and get a good idea of what Im working with. I have found lemon juice to be a great way to remove stubborn rust, and generally clean the blade. However, unfortunately for some metals, it sometimes etches rather white, and doesnt give a good color contrast. In those cases I will move the Ferric Chloride. It is much stronger (well at least the blend I use), and tends to give blacker etches. It is a harsher, color than lemon juice, and I now tend to avoid it, unless I just cannot get good color with lemon. Anyways, I will normally do multiple short etches, removing excess oxides between sessions, to adjust color. In the end it is up to your own eye, what you want the color to be, but short etches allow for greater control vs a long etch (though a long etch can have more dramatic effects). You make a mistake in a short etch, its easier to remove oxides and start over. Long etches can cause topographical texture on the blade (which is not suited for many pieces), and will require alot of work to get back to a clean start. But my big recommendation, would be to try a few different acids, short mulitiple sessions, and keep an eye on that blade. Anyways my .002 centavos.

Lew · 13th March 2005, 04:30 PM

Hi Moose

Very nice dagger you have there. I picked up a more recently made knife that some people considered Mexican but I always thought it was Philippine. It has the same type of faceted ferrule here is a picture of it.

Lew

11th March 2005, 05:07 PM	#1
moose Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portage, Michigan USA Posts: 44	Philippine Dagger for ID and Comment Well I thought the Kris thread was getting too long so I thought I would start a fresh one. Following that thread. Here's the next piece in my collection. It's a nice dagger, got a real nice heft and feel. Looks to be a bone hilt done in the form of a horse's leg. But I'm not sure about the bone. When I cleaned it up and did a hot sun/lime juice etch the differential hardening line showed up and some purple, blues and gold. The blade is 9 5/8" long. 15" overall. It's 9/32" at the hilt. It's square from the hilt for 4" and the last 5" the square edges are rounded over. You can't really see it in the pommel picture but it appears to be peened over. hit it at least 7 times. Anyway a nice nutcracker on the end. Finally, I'm not sure if you can see it well but there are 5 direct cuts/nicks on the right side and a good one on the left plus many little dings. Maybe some live blade training or actual use. Anyway I got this in a trade from a friend who had a girlfriend who lived next to an old gal who husband had been in the war. You know one of those stories. I got this one and the bolo people here described as being from Luzon at the same time. Would appreciate your comments. moose Attached Images

11th March 2005, 05:11 PM	#2
moose Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portage, Michigan USA Posts: 44	Here's the picture of the nicks and one of the Luzon bolo. Would appreciate your comments, moose Attached Images

11th March 2005, 05:17 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi Moose: This one is also from Luzon. The full tang construction and hilt shape are typical of northern Philippines (Tagalog) work. I associate that particular hilt form with parts of northern Luzon (the Ilocos area or Baguio), and the area just north of Manila (Pampanga, Angelos City, Bataan, etc.). This is a fairly common style of hilt post WWII, and GIs stationed at Subic Bay and Clark AFB brought them back in the thousands. Your knife seems to be one of the nicer ones. You gave it a long hard etch which is why you see so much blue on the blade. Nice piece. Luzon — second half of the 20th C. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 11th March 2005 at 06:32 PM.

13th March 2005, 04:30 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Moose Very nice dagger you have there. I picked up a more recently made knife that some people considered Mexican but I always thought it was Philippine. It has the same type of faceted ferrule here is a picture of it. Lew Attached Images

11th March 2005, 05:12 PM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Man, that is gorgeous. Love the bone? hilt. Steve

11th March 2005, 05:37 PM	#5
moose Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portage, Michigan USA Posts: 44	Steve, Thank you, I like it too! It's solid and razor sharp. You could use it and it wouldn't let you down. I like that a lot in the blades I collect. Yours sure fit's the bill too! Ian, Thank you for your comments. You said "You gave it a long hard etch which is why you see so much blue on the blade." Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Is it something to expect with other types of etching? (vinegar, arsenic, ferric stuff from Radio Shack) etc. Have some other etching to do and want as much info going in as possible. thanks, moose

12th March 2005, 01:59 AM	#6
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Coloring during the etch will depend on a couple of things, the composition of the steel, and to a lesser extent the type of acid used to etch. In my experience etching, I have not seen time as being as big a factor of coloration (eg. color vs degree of intensity). The longer the etch, of course the greater the build up of oxides providing a more intense coloration (in a severe case completely blackening a blade), but nothing that will fundamentally change the color/hue, eg. from black to grey to blue, etc... When I etch, I normally do a number of short etching sessions. After the blade is cleaned of grease/dirt buildup, I normally start with a lemon etch, mainly to clean the blade, and get a good idea of what Im working with. I have found lemon juice to be a great way to remove stubborn rust, and generally clean the blade. However, unfortunately for some metals, it sometimes etches rather white, and doesnt give a good color contrast. In those cases I will move the Ferric Chloride. It is much stronger (well at least the blend I use), and tends to give blacker etches. It is a harsher, color than lemon juice, and I now tend to avoid it, unless I just cannot get good color with lemon. Anyways, I will normally do multiple short etches, removing excess oxides between sessions, to adjust color. In the end it is up to your own eye, what you want the color to be, but short etches allow for greater control vs a long etch (though a long etch can have more dramatic effects). You make a mistake in a short etch, its easier to remove oxides and start over. Long etches can cause topographical texture on the blade (which is not suited for many pieces), and will require alot of work to get back to a clean start. But my big recommendation, would be to try a few different acids, short mulitiple sessions, and keep an eye on that blade. Anyways my .002 centavos.