Huge Moro kris

Flavio · 19th July 2007, 06:39 PM

Hi all here is another addiction

The base of the ganga is 15 cm and the piece is very heavy!! I think that was a true fighting kris. I love the red cloth

Rick · 19th July 2007, 06:53 PM

Nice looking sword Flavio ; very interesting half-round greneng .

Flavio · 19th July 2007, 07:37 PM

Thank you Rick

. yes the greneng is quite unusual, maybe of a simpler type for a "working" piece

How should look like a scabbard for this kris? I'd like to try to make one in the future

Edit: this type of scabbard is the most simple kind (pic from Mr. Yarom's site)

Maurice · 19th July 2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Edit: this type of scabbard is the most simple kind (pic from Mr. Yarom's site)

Maybe it is the most simple kind, but I like this kind of scabbard.

It has the same shape of my first (and only) moro kris as you can see on the pics.

Flavio · 19th July 2007, 08:30 PM

Beautiful Kris, Maurice, congratulations

Maurice · 19th July 2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Beautiful Kris, Maurice, congratulations

Thanks Flavio!

kai · 19th July 2007, 08:47 PM

Hello Flavio,

Congrats, I'm very pleased that Roman's piece found a good new home!

IMHO a very nice Maguindanao kris: the blade is of Mindanao crossover style (according to Cato's classification) and the size of the blade combined with the simple hilt decorations and the one-piece asang-asang pretty much nails it AFAIK.

Quote:

the greneng is quite unusual, maybe of a simpler type for a "working" piece

It's nice work - I guess the carving style of most kris reflects more what has been agreed upon between panday and future owner (following local traditions and possibly including mystic symbolism) rather than wealth and status per se. BTW, this is one of the few Moro kris I've seen where the scroll work along the longer side of the gangya isn't mirrored or at least reflected at the shorter side.

Quote:

How should look like a scabbard for this kris? I'd like to try to make one in the future

The scabbard shown is a perfect fit for a Maguindanao kris. The outer side (not shown here) usually has an inserted wood notch which helps to hold the scabbard in the sash.

Regards,
Kai

Flavio · 19th July 2007, 09:08 PM

Thank you Kai

Sorry but I haven't well understand this

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, this is one of the few Moro kris I've seen where the incisions along the longer side of the gangya aren't mirrored or at least reflected at the shorter side.

kai · 19th July 2007, 09:52 PM

Hello Flavio,

I'm speaking of the carvings at the asymmetrical base of the kris blade (I'm trying to avoid the word "greneng"): Usually, you see the same or very similar motifs along both "edges"...

Regards,
Kai

Flavio · 20th July 2007, 10:30 AM

Ah, yes Kai, now I understand, you mean the file works on the "head" of the "elefant" and the "greneng" area

. Yeah, it's unusual to see different kind of decoration

Rick · 20th July 2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Flavio,

I'm speaking of the carvings at the asymmetrical base of the kris blade (I'm trying to avoid the word "greneng"): Usually, you see the same or very similar motifs along both "edges"...

Regards,
Kai

Agreed, a bit unusual that there is no reflection of the style carried over.

It's a shame there is no Moro term (that I know of) to substitute for the word greneng .

Flavio, will you etch this piece ?

Bill · 20th July 2007, 05:39 PM

Flavio, will you etch this piece ?[/QUOTE]
Have a feeling this blade won't etch. Have a couple of these large Mindanao fighting kriss; they most likely were re-cycled steel. It looks like a rough grit sandpaper was used to clean the blade. I'm also cautious about the hilt & fitting. While hilts from Mindanao often have "knob" hilts, all the big large ones I've seen had "horse's hoof". The fitting looks old but looks like it was cut to fit for the clamp. I'd just use some vineger on the blade to see if it will etch, if nothing else it will take some of the shine off.

Flavio · 20th July 2007, 07:07 PM

Hello Rick, I'm quite undecided to etch the blade. I can see some lamination in the sunlight, so the blade is not monosteel, but I really like also this shiny finish, so I don't know

Bill I think that the handle is original to the blade: the ferrule is casting brass and at some point of its life was broken and not cut to re-fit, at least it's wat I can see. Also the dimension of the handle is good for the huge blade, thank you

kai · 21st July 2007, 12:30 AM

Hello Flavio,

I was also going to suggest etching.

Leaving the a Moro blade in high polish would be akin to treating a genuine nihonto with warangan...

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 21st July 2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hello Rick, I'm quite undecided to etch the blade. I can see some lamination in the sunlight, so the blade is not monosteel, but I really like also this shiny finish, so I don't know

Bill I think that the handle is original to the blade: the ferrule is casting brass and at some point of its life was broken and not cut to re-fit, at least it's wat I can see. Also the dimension of the handle is good for the huge blade, thank you

Hi Flavio,

If you can see the lamination in the blade as it is and you like the polish I think you should go with your instincts; after all the sword is yours .

Flavio · 21st July 2007, 01:36 PM

Hello Rick and Kai, yes I will try an etching, since I have also another Moro kris that needs an etching and I will work on both.... I change idea easily

Flavio · 21st July 2007, 08:20 PM

Well, I have etched the blade and maybe Bill is right

seems monosteel, with hardened edges, but also there is a thin line in the middle of the blade (that is not the central rib) that maybe is still a sign of a very simple lamination? Could you see this thin line in the middle of the blade? ah, another thing: seems that for the first third of the blade (from handle) is simple monosteel and than start the hardened edges (the "working" part of the blade)

The pictures are very bad, sorry

Flavio · 22nd July 2007, 05:48 PM

So what do you thik? is it monosteel? Thank you

kai · 22nd July 2007, 11:56 PM

Hello Flavio,

Quote:

hardened edges, but also there is a thin line in the middle of the blade (that is not the central rib) that maybe is still a sign of a very simple lamination?

Well, the blade is pretty young (1900-1930) so there is a real chance that this was crafted from "modern" steel - nothing wrong with that if done with skill as the hardened edges suggest...

That central line does seem to be a forging line which may be worth following up upon: This may be case of overenthusiastic polishing (which tends to obscur lamination patterns) and several rounds of polishing by hand followed by etching may be able to tell more details about the bladesmith's approach. Since the blade has enough substance, I'd give it a try.

BTW, how did the staining worked with that other blade, Flavio?

Regards,
Kai

Flavio · 23rd July 2007, 04:55 PM

Hello Kai, I was thinking to re-polished the blade since the result is not so exceptional.... at the end I liked also the shiny finish...

For the other Moro I will start soon a new thread

kai · 23rd July 2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

For the other Moro I will start soon a new thread

Am looking forward to!

19th July 2007, 06:39 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Huge Moro kris Hi all here is another addiction The base of the ganga is 15 cm and the piece is very heavy!! I think that was a true fighting kris. I love the red cloth Attached Images

19th July 2007, 07:37 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Rick . yes the greneng is quite unusual, maybe of a simpler type for a "working" piece How should look like a scabbard for this kris? I'd like to try to make one in the future Edit: this type of scabbard is the most simple kind (pic from Mr. Yarom's site) Attached Images

21st July 2007, 08:20 PM	#17
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Well, I have etched the blade and maybe Bill is right seems monosteel, with hardened edges, but also there is a thin line in the middle of the blade (that is not the central rib) that maybe is still a sign of a very simple lamination? Could you see this thin line in the middle of the blade? ah, another thing: seems that for the first third of the blade (from handle) is simple monosteel and than start the hardened edges (the "working" part of the blade) The pictures are very bad, sorry Attached Images

19th July 2007, 06:53 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Nice looking sword Flavio ; very interesting half-round greneng .

19th July 2007, 08:30 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Beautiful Kris, Maurice, congratulations

19th July 2007, 09:52 PM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Flavio, I'm speaking of the carvings at the asymmetrical base of the kris blade (I'm trying to avoid the word "greneng"): Usually, you see the same or very similar motifs along both "edges"... Regards, Kai

20th July 2007, 10:30 AM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Ah, yes Kai, now I understand, you mean the file works on the "head" of the "elefant" and the "greneng" area . Yeah, it's unusual to see different kind of decoration

20th July 2007, 05:39 PM	#12
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Flavio, will you etch this piece ?[/QUOTE] Have a feeling this blade won't etch. Have a couple of these large Mindanao fighting kriss; they most likely were re-cycled steel. It looks like a rough grit sandpaper was used to clean the blade. I'm also cautious about the hilt & fitting. While hilts from Mindanao often have "knob" hilts, all the big large ones I've seen had "horse's hoof". The fitting looks old but looks like it was cut to fit for the clamp. I'd just use some vineger on the blade to see if it will etch, if nothing else it will take some of the shine off.

20th July 2007, 07:07 PM	#13
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Rick, I'm quite undecided to etch the blade. I can see some lamination in the sunlight, so the blade is not monosteel, but I really like also this shiny finish, so I don't know Bill I think that the handle is original to the blade: the ferrule is casting brass and at some point of its life was broken and not cut to re-fit, at least it's wat I can see. Also the dimension of the handle is good for the huge blade, thank you

21st July 2007, 12:30 AM	#14
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Flavio, I was also going to suggest etching. Leaving the a Moro blade in high polish would be akin to treating a genuine nihonto with warangan... Regards, Kai

21st July 2007, 01:36 PM	#16
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Rick and Kai, yes I will try an etching, since I have also another Moro kris that needs an etching and I will work on both.... I change idea easily

22nd July 2007, 05:48 PM	#18
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	So what do you thik? is it monosteel? Thank you

23rd July 2007, 04:55 PM	#20
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Kai, I was thinking to re-polished the blade since the result is not so exceptional.... at the end I liked also the shiny finish... For the other Moro I will start soon a new thread