Curved Kinjal ? Any good ?

katana · 1st June 2007, 10:07 PM

Hi, just acquired this Kingal, not so certain about the age ...seems OK though.
Is it a reasonable basic example.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...DME:L:RTQ:UK:1

Lew · 1st June 2007, 10:25 PM

It sure looks like a jambiya to me and not a kindjal. Her is one I owned some time ago which is more kindjalish

than the one you have

I like yours and would place it late 19th or early 20th century the scabbard looks Balkin or Kurdish to me.

Lew

katana · 2nd June 2007, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

It sure looks like a jambiya to me and not a kindjal. Her is one I owned some time ago which is more kindjalish

than the one you have

Lew

Hi Lew and thanks,
for some reason I....like the seller....ID'ed it as a Kindjal... me because of the kindjalish

( nice technical term Lew) hilt. Still, hopefully its better than the picture. Kronckew's Kard (another thread) came from the same source and looks like a nice example

Thats a nice knife Lew

, so now the quest is to find a 'proper' Kindjal

Regards David

kronckew · 2nd June 2007, 08:24 AM

i always think of mine as a bendy kindjal

because of the grips studded on one side. guess they are a form of jambiya, but as i do not like yemeni or arabian jambiya, i'll have difficulty of thinking its related to one of these:

saw quite a few of them in saudi shops in al khobar and dammam over the years, always thought they were crude & overdressed....and the silver is a bi**h to keep clean. (i gather there are a few better shops in riyadh but i never got that far west)

Jim McDougall · 2nd June 2007, 06:52 PM

OK guys,
I think your bendy sort of kindjalish dagger has a blade that looks sort of Black Sea yataghanish (although daggerish size)with the subtle recurve

and the hilt looks kind of Kurdish-ish. Since the Black Sea 'yataghans' ( also Laz bichagi) are also identified as Kurdish-Armenian, maybe this might be Kurdish-Armenianish janbiyya?

Best regards,
Jim

spiral · 3rd June 2007, 10:03 PM

Kronc, to me it looks typical of a ww2 or earlier Bedouin Shibria or shibrya Ive had quite a few & lots of them were fairly much identicle to yours.

They usualy turn up around the Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Syria & sinai area

They are related to Jambia in a way but I often wonder if they were originaly made from tips of yataghan bayonets?

Ive still got a couple but ones a silver & nielo scabbard & grip & a brass wrapped one with a blade made from a file, but they have the 2 prong top rather than the triangle tip of yours. But many have the triangle tip as well.

Spiral

Jim McDougall · 5th June 2007, 10:47 PM

Hi Spiral,
I think your thoughts on regional source for these seems pretty much on target. I dont these these pictured have bayonet blades, but I think your observation on the possibility of the yataghan bayonet blades seems plausible on some regional items. The use of bayonet blades on many items seems to occur on a number of many items such as s'boula in Morocco/the 'Zanzibar swords' and others.

Best regards,
Jim

spiral · 10th June 2007, 12:18 AM

I agree Jim That Kronckews Shibria is certanly not made from a bayonet, my poorly described point was I wonder it that was what the first original early ones were made from.

I am sure many French Yataghans would have been in that area? Syria , Lebanon etc?

Spiral

Jim McDougall · 10th June 2007, 01:10 AM

I was with ya on that Spiral

and I think you did make a good point, those bayonets were a good source for blades for quite a few locally fabricated weapons. It is interesting that the same thing happened in the U.S. during the Civil War, and many bayonets were fabricated into everything from hunting knives and sidearms, same thing in Mexico.
All the best,
Jim

katana · 19th June 2007, 10:49 PM

Refering to Stone's Glossary ....I appreciate that some of his ideas are inaccurate.....I found under 'Kindjal' a pic of a curved example. The construction (of a kindjal) fits my example ie

He writes...
...Occasionally the blades are curved.....The hilts are straight in the grip with broad pommels and an enlargement of nearly the same size and shape next to the handle. The grips are often of two pieces of horn rivetted to the flat tang.....The scabbards are covered with leather..

So the question is ....is the knife a jambiya or a kindjal based on the design of a jambiya ? The blade is quality steel, something, a number of jambiyas seem to lack

1st June 2007, 10:07 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Curved Kinjal ? Any good ? Hi, just acquired this Kingal, not so certain about the age ...seems OK though. Is it a reasonable basic example. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...DME:L:RTQ:UK:1 Attached Images

1st June 2007, 10:25 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	It sure looks like a jambiya to me and not a kindjal. Her is one I owned some time ago which is more kindjalish than the one you have I like yours and would place it late 19th or early 20th century the scabbard looks Balkin or Kurdish to me. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 1st June 2007 at 10:58 PM.

19th June 2007, 10:49 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Refering to Stone's Glossary ....I appreciate that some of his ideas are inaccurate.....I found under 'Kindjal' a pic of a curved example. The construction (of a kindjal) fits my example ie He writes... ...Occasionally the blades are curved.....The hilts are straight in the grip with broad pommels and an enlargement of nearly the same size and shape next to the handle. The grips are often of two pieces of horn rivetted to the flat tang.....The scabbards are covered with leather.. So the question is ....is the knife a jambiya or a kindjal based on the design of a jambiya ? The blade is quality steel, something, a number of jambiyas seem to lack Last edited by katana; 19th June 2007 at 11:17 PM.

2nd June 2007, 08:24 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	i always think of mine as a bendy kindjal because of the grips studded on one side. guess they are a form of jambiya, but as i do not like yemeni or arabian jambiya, i'll have difficulty of thinking its related to one of these: saw quite a few of them in saudi shops in al khobar and dammam over the years, always thought they were crude & overdressed....and the silver is a bi**h to keep clean. (i gather there are a few better shops in riyadh but i never got that far west)

2nd June 2007, 06:52 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	OK guys, I think your bendy sort of kindjalish dagger has a blade that looks sort of Black Sea yataghanish (although daggerish size)with the subtle recurve and the hilt looks kind of Kurdish-ish. Since the Black Sea 'yataghans' ( also Laz bichagi) are also identified as Kurdish-Armenian, maybe this might be Kurdish-Armenianish janbiyya? Best regards, Jim

3rd June 2007, 10:03 PM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Kronc, to me it looks typical of a ww2 or earlier Bedouin Shibria or shibrya Ive had quite a few & lots of them were fairly much identicle to yours. They usualy turn up around the Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Syria & sinai area They are related to Jambia in a way but I often wonder if they were originaly made from tips of yataghan bayonets? Ive still got a couple but ones a silver & nielo scabbard & grip & a brass wrapped one with a blade made from a file, but they have the 2 prong top rather than the triangle tip of yours. But many have the triangle tip as well. Spiral

5th June 2007, 10:47 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Hi Spiral, I think your thoughts on regional source for these seems pretty much on target. I dont these these pictured have bayonet blades, but I think your observation on the possibility of the yataghan bayonet blades seems plausible on some regional items. The use of bayonet blades on many items seems to occur on a number of many items such as s'boula in Morocco/the 'Zanzibar swords' and others. Best regards, Jim

10th June 2007, 12:18 AM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I agree Jim That Kronckews Shibria is certanly not made from a bayonet, my poorly described point was I wonder it that was what the first original early ones were made from. I am sure many French Yataghans would have been in that area? Syria , Lebanon etc? Spiral

10th June 2007, 01:10 AM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	I was with ya on that Spiral and I think you did make a good point, those bayonets were a good source for blades for quite a few locally fabricated weapons. It is interesting that the same thing happened in the U.S. during the Civil War, and many bayonets were fabricated into everything from hunting knives and sidearms, same thing in Mexico. All the best, Jim