North Indian axe?

Tim Simmons · 28th April 2007, 08:34 PM

I won this today on ebay

the price was not too bad. The postage is a little high, that could have stopped other people from trying there luck. That said it is from some sort of on line charity shop. I am feeling sure that it is not the dreaded repro axe we have all fallen for

. This picture will have to do untill I get it.

Battara · 28th April 2007, 09:20 PM

What picture?

- oh never mind.....

Lew · 28th April 2007, 09:38 PM

Tim

The head looks like it has been put on upside down

Lew

Tim Simmons · 29th April 2007, 08:51 AM

Not sure about that Lew from this picture

. I think this may be from Orissa the "Khond" or "Kondh" I am trying to find other examples and more info.

Tim Simmons · 29th April 2007, 09:50 AM

Found one here. Ouch!
http://www.denner.ca/weapons/eastern/index.html

Battara · 29th April 2007, 09:14 PM

The head is on the right way - that is the style of this particular (and parculiar) axe.

Tim Simmons · 10th May 2007, 11:19 AM

Finally arrived and scrubbed up nicely. A clever solution to the stress of a small but heavy axe head impact on the halft. The blade is 16mm thick where it joins the socket. I am pleased with it. The only problem with things like this is they seem to have absolutely no effect on my waist line.

katana · 10th May 2007, 12:27 PM

NICE

Flavio · 10th May 2007, 12:54 PM

Congratulations Tim, very nice !!!!

Lew · 10th May 2007, 07:56 PM

Tim that is one sweet axe.

Congrats

Lew

Jens Nordlunde · 11th May 2007, 04:43 PM

Hi Tim,

In the book Memorial of the Jaipore Exhibition, 1883, by Th.H.Hendley, such an axe is shown. I did not have time to read the text and I don’t have the book, so I can’t help you further, other than saying it was classified as a battle axe.

Jens

Tim Simmons · 11th May 2007, 05:32 PM

Thanks Jens any accurate info is appreciated on these matters. I too am starting to question the general Khond attribution. In Tirri's book page 338 there is this zaghnal of the same construction. What I have read of the khond, these pieces do not strike me as fitting the wealth and technical abilities of an aboriginal minority. I know they do not exist in complete isolation, there would be tribal leaders and others that would represent thier communities at the courts of surrounding landlords. As a dress weapon they could be obtained by trade. Maybe a battle axe is the best thing to say. This form does not seem to be the most common. This is a picture of a tribesman a little further north than khond lands. He has what I would think is more apt.

Battara · 11th May 2007, 05:55 PM

No offense to Tirri, but I would not depend on him for accurate nomenclature, attribution, nor information. Pictures are good though.

Tim Simmons · 11th May 2007, 06:11 PM

Yes the pics are pretty good. One the other hand Elgood's Hindu arms has the tendency to leave great lumps of South India out of consideration altogether.

Tim Simmons · 11th May 2007, 06:45 PM

I wonder if these and other small axes from India may be more of a {for want of better words} civil weapon. Like a stout stick or staff. I cannot help making a comparison to herders axes from the 19th century in eastern Europe. In a time of no street lights or tarmac roads and no local police, small decorative weapons would be handy to have around. Not so much to use but the signals they send out. They do not handle as I would want in a real "battle" axe. I think these pictures say a lot. A travellers axe may be a good name.

Tim Simmons · 11th May 2007, 07:40 PM

The construction with the steel strip down most of the handle is serious stuff. The weapon has a considerable amount of flex. It is just that the handle is quite thin for a good constant grip for me. I have always thought of the term horseman's axe as a bit "what is it, call it a horseman's axe" but a rider could lean from a horse and strike with an axe. The flex in the construction would help extricate the weapon at speed? The grip does bother me. Has anyone got good information and pics.

Tim Simmons · 12th May 2007, 02:06 PM

Maybe it is a case of the smaller Asian hands and how young is a young warrior thingy.

Sikh_soldier · 12th May 2007, 04:11 PM

Wow!
That is a very nice axe,
how did you clean it up so well?

Jens Nordlunde · 12th May 2007, 04:15 PM

Is the handle thinner than a steel handle would be?
There are different kinds of wood, and some of them are very strong, yet very flexible - remember some of the wooden bows.

Tim Simmons · 12th May 2007, 08:39 PM

I had not thought of that Jens. It is the same as the metal axes. So it may be a battle axe. Very clever in a simple way to make a strong and flexible halft like that. If a target was hit in the chest or head at speed the halft would need to flex or it would most likely snap.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th May 2007, 10:50 AM

A friend just sent me this picture. He says it is from Memorials of the Jaipure Exhibition 1883. Which, of course, does not mean that the weapons shown are from Jaipur. The axe to the left has a long stiletto hidden in the steel haft, notice also the haft on the second axe from the left – it is a rather thin haft made of wood.

B.I · 13th May 2007, 10:59 AM

Jens, look at the size of that katar!!!!!!!!

Jens Nordlunde · 13th May 2007, 12:21 PM

Yes, I have looked at it several times, and I believe it is from Bikaner, although I have never seen on so massive before.

B.I · 13th May 2007, 03:43 PM

The armouries have one of comparable size. I have an image I will try and find later. From memory, it hasnt the same thick and substantial proportions.

tsubame1 · 15th May 2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

No offense to Tirri, but I would not depend on him for accurate nomenclature, attribution, nor information. Pictures are good though.

So it's just a pictorial book with no real usefulness as per the most
important features of weaponry you've quoted ?

Tim Simmons · 15th May 2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubame1

So it's just a pictorial book with no real usefulness as per the most
important features of weaponry you've quoted ?

I think that is a bit strong, a list might be more apt.

Andrew · 15th May 2007, 08:06 PM

Gentlemen, I'm not eager to go down this road again...

Mark · 16th May 2007, 01:15 PM

By all means, continue the discussion of the axe, of course. Just remember to stay on topic.

tsubame1 · 16th May 2007, 10:12 PM

[QUOTE=Mark]By all means, continue the discussion of the axe[QUOTE]

... that's a nice one even at the eyes of a total beginner.

28th April 2007, 08:34 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	North Indian axe? I won this today on ebay the price was not too bad. The postage is a little high, that could have stopped other people from trying there luck. That said it is from some sort of on line charity shop. I am feeling sure that it is not the dreaded repro axe we have all fallen for . This picture will have to do untill I get it.

29th April 2007, 08:51 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Not sure about that Lew from this picture . I think this may be from Orissa the "Khond" or "Kondh" I am trying to find other examples and more info. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th April 2007 at 09:43 AM.

10th May 2007, 11:19 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I like it. Finally arrived and scrubbed up nicely. A clever solution to the stress of a small but heavy axe head impact on the halft. The blade is 16mm thick where it joins the socket. I am pleased with it. The only problem with things like this is they seem to have absolutely no effect on my waist line.

11th May 2007, 05:32 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Thanks Jens any accurate info is appreciated on these matters. I too am starting to question the general Khond attribution. In Tirri's book page 338 there is this zaghnal of the same construction. What I have read of the khond, these pieces do not strike me as fitting the wealth and technical abilities of an aboriginal minority. I know they do not exist in complete isolation, there would be tribal leaders and others that would represent thier communities at the courts of surrounding landlords. As a dress weapon they could be obtained by trade. Maybe a battle axe is the best thing to say. This form does not seem to be the most common. This is a picture of a tribesman a little further north than khond lands. He has what I would think is more apt. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 11th May 2007 at 06:09 PM.

11th May 2007, 06:45 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Perhaps even "battle axe" is a little strong? I wonder if these and other small axes from India may be more of a {for want of better words} civil weapon. Like a stout stick or staff. I cannot help making a comparison to herders axes from the 19th century in eastern Europe. In a time of no street lights or tarmac roads and no local police, small decorative weapons would be handy to have around. Not so much to use but the signals they send out. They do not handle as I would want in a real "battle" axe. I think these pictures say a lot. A travellers axe may be a good name.

28th April 2007, 09:20 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	What picture? - oh never mind.....

28th April 2007, 09:38 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim The head looks like it has been put on upside down Lew

29th April 2007, 09:50 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Found one here. Ouch! http://www.denner.ca/weapons/eastern/index.html

29th April 2007, 09:14 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	The head is on the right way - that is the style of this particular (and parculiar) axe.

10th May 2007, 12:27 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	NICE

10th May 2007, 12:54 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Congratulations Tim, very nice !!!!

10th May 2007, 07:56 PM	#10
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim that is one sweet axe. Congrats Lew

11th May 2007, 04:43 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Tim, In the book Memorial of the Jaipore Exhibition, 1883, by Th.H.Hendley, such an axe is shown. I did not have time to read the text and I don’t have the book, so I can’t help you further, other than saying it was classified as a battle axe. Jens

11th May 2007, 05:55 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	No offense to Tirri, but I would not depend on him for accurate nomenclature, attribution, nor information. Pictures are good though.

11th May 2007, 06:11 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Yes the pics are pretty good. One the other hand Elgood's Hindu arms has the tendency to leave great lumps of South India out of consideration altogether.

11th May 2007, 07:40 PM	#16
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	on the other hand? The construction with the steel strip down most of the handle is serious stuff. The weapon has a considerable amount of flex. It is just that the handle is quite thin for a good constant grip for me. I have always thought of the term horseman's axe as a bit "what is it, call it a horseman's axe" but a rider could lean from a horse and strike with an axe. The flex in the construction would help extricate the weapon at speed? The grip does bother me. Has anyone got good information and pics.

12th May 2007, 02:06 PM	#17
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Maybe it is a case of the smaller Asian hands and how young is a young warrior thingy.

12th May 2007, 04:11 PM	#18
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Nice axe! Wow! That is a very nice axe, how did you clean it up so well?

12th May 2007, 04:15 PM	#19
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Is the handle thinner than a steel handle would be? There are different kinds of wood, and some of them are very strong, yet very flexible - remember some of the wooden bows.

12th May 2007, 08:39 PM	#20
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	good thinking I had not thought of that Jens. It is the same as the metal axes. So it may be a battle axe. Very clever in a simple way to make a strong and flexible halft like that. If a target was hit in the chest or head at speed the halft would need to flex or it would most likely snap.

13th May 2007, 10:50 AM	#21
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	A friend just sent me this picture. He says it is from Memorials of the Jaipure Exhibition 1883. Which, of course, does not mean that the weapons shown are from Jaipur. The axe to the left has a long stiletto hidden in the steel haft, notice also the haft on the second axe from the left – it is a rather thin haft made of wood. Attached Images

13th May 2007, 10:59 AM	#22
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	Jens, look at the size of that katar!!!!!!!!

13th May 2007, 12:21 PM	#23
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes, I have looked at it several times, and I believe it is from Bikaner, although I have never seen on so massive before.

13th May 2007, 03:43 PM	#24
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	The armouries have one of comparable size. I have an image I will try and find later. From memory, it hasnt the same thick and substantial proportions.

15th May 2007, 08:06 PM	#27
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Gentlemen, I'm not eager to go down this road again...

16th May 2007, 01:15 PM	#28
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	By all means, continue the discussion of the axe, of course. Just remember to stay on topic.

16th May 2007, 10:12 PM	#29
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	[QUOTE=Mark]By all means, continue the discussion of the axe[QUOTE] ... that's a nice one even at the eyes of a total beginner.