Spectacular Kilij!!!

ariel · 27th March 2007, 10:50 PM

Just ended...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150105564166

Seller's location, method of payment and the anonymity of bidding make me believe that whoever transfers money to the owner's bank account is for a big and unpleasant surprise.....

spiral · 28th March 2007, 12:13 AM

Guess you could risk credit card payment via paypal, if you have good relationship with your credit cards legal department.

Probably safer than going there to collect it, or bank transfer!

Spiral

Bill M · 28th March 2007, 09:20 AM

ALEX · 28th March 2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Just ended...
Seller's location, method of payment and the anonymity of bidding make me believe that whoever transfers money to the owner's bank account is for a big and unpleasant surprise.....

Ariel, you have a good eye:-) I also noticed it. I believe it is a Shamshir though. The seller stated: "If you have questions, I with pleasure shall answer your e-mail." so I did asked IF PayPal is accepted .... no reply whatsoever. So, your observations are very valid.
Again, nice sword indeed.

spiral · 28th March 2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Ariel, you have a good eye:-) I also noticed it. I believe it is a Shamshir though. The seller stated: "If you have questions, I with pleasure shall answer your e-mail." so I did asked IF PayPal is accepted .... no reply whatsoever. So, your observations are very valid.
Again, nice sword indeed.

If you actualy scrolled to bottom of page it is all set up for paypal payment.

It always helps to read the whole advert. He probably assumed anyone who couldnt do that, wasnt serious....

Spiral

David · 28th March 2007, 01:57 PM

[QUOTE=arielSeller's location, method of payment and the anonymity of bidding make me believe that whoever transfers money to the owner's bank account is for a big and unpleasant surprise.....[/QUOTE]

I am afraid anonimity of the bidders is becoming the norm on eBay. It seems it is endorsed by eBay itself.
The only thing i find obviously suspect on this auction is that the seller has absolutely no feedback. That in itself is enough to stop me from bidding on an item.

Bill M · 28th March 2007, 03:34 PM

Something in ths auction does not pass the "Nose Test."

Just smells wrong!

But Spiral is right. Always read the entire ad. I guess you could fund the PayPal with a credit card, but still, I would be nervous.

However I was just given some incredibly bad advice from a Curator of Arfican Arts on the purchase of a few African items, so I am not in a trustng mood.

spiral · 28th March 2007, 03:48 PM

I agree its probably dodgy, my credit card covers me well though, I guess cards smallprint & banking laws can very depending on which country ones based in. If I realy wanted it, I would have rung the CC legal department & asked if I was covered for buying antique swords from Ukraine via ebay. They give a straight yes or no & in past have always served me very well, with major purchases including secondhand cars & dodgy international sword dealers.

But like ebay & paypal expieriences your milage may vary!

Spiral

RSWORD · 28th March 2007, 11:10 PM

While I wouldn't want to make a blanket statement that all sellers from the Ukraine are scam artists it is a fact that several people have been "taken" by sellers from the Ukraine. There was an Ebay seller that posted several rather nice Chinese swords. The only payment policy was Western Union. I have heard of two people that made the purchase, sent the money, only to never have the sword show up. The pictures were rather similar to this sword.(Seems all swords are pictured on a sword stand.) I think it is important to spread the news about these type of things so other folks are not "taken" by such scams.

ariel · 4th April 2007, 11:18 PM

Another one, even more spectacular, with a wootz blade!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9262&rd=1&rd=1
No bids.
This is the second time this Kilij is listed on e-bay; it was already "sold" once.

Battara · 5th April 2007, 01:15 AM

Ariel, the original listing mentioned was withdrawn and canceled by eBay. If this new listing is the item in question, then I like it, but it does have false damascus. IT is also listed from China.

HUSAR · 5th April 2007, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

If you actualy scrolled to bottom of page it is all set up for paypal payment.

It always helps to read the whole advert. He probably assumed anyone who couldnt do that, wasnt serious....

Spiral

I have e-mailed seller too... and asked about telephone number and address while I could mange local pick-up no response to any e-mails, take care for swords listed from Ukraine and Russia while all those items are much more expensive there than in other parts of Europe or USA...
best
Husar

Yannis · 6th April 2007, 11:35 PM

One funny thing in the second kilij: The most positive feedbacks of the seller come from people who are "no longer register user" in Ebay. I wonder why all these good people left

ALEX · 10th April 2007, 09:59 AM

Another marvel from Ukraine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shamshir-in-a-co...QQcmdZViewItem

If you look closely - the rants of Kirk-Narduban look almost like they've been painted on the blade, too perfect. If the buyer gets it - what a deal!!!

ariel · 10th April 2007, 12:37 PM

I was watching this one closely, together with 2 other spectaculat items that he was selling.
The story is strange: the seller came out of nowhere with 333 positive feedbacks, all from a total of 5 or 6 sellers ( he was always a buyer), all items were bought in large batches, 30-60 of them in one fell swoop.
Then he sold 3 decent European swods for modest sums and got positive feedbacks.
Then, he put 3 spectacular Oriental swords including a Tulwar (misspelled) that Fiegel would have drooled over. Three days. Then, the next batch ( the shamshir, gorgeous shield/helmet and 2 fantastic daggers). Three days.
"Do not ask me about the origin of these swords". Bank transfer only.
If I were a suspicious man ( as Don Corleone used to say), I 'd have said that by the time swords are supposed to arrive from the Ukraine and feedback left, the seller would get all the bank transfers for these and, perhaps, for yet another batch or two ( 3 day listings).
But I am a naive soul, believing in the innate goodness and honesty of all human beings. Congratulations to the winners!

spiral · 10th April 2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The story is strange: the seller came out of nowhere with 333 positive feedbacks, all from a total of 5 or 6 sellers ( he was always a buyer), all items were bought in large batches, 30-60 of them in one fell swoop.

Actualy Ariel thats 337 members who left him 1,921 feedbacks, since 1998. that is an average nearer to 6 buys per seller.

But the strangest thing to my eye is the account had been dormant for 3 years, a suspicios & paranoid mind might wonder if it was a hacked account? But of course he may have just been busy!

Spiral

Yannis · 11th April 2007, 06:38 AM

I was looking last shamshir too. It is a perfect piece. I was suspicious so I send a question to the seller. I never got an answer. After that I could not bid not a euro on that. Ukraine is not the place to mess with legal debates. I wish the buyer good luck.

ALEX · 11th April 2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Something in ths auction does not pass the "Nose Test."

Just smells wrong!

...However I was just given some incredibly bad advice from a Curator of Arfican Arts on the purchase of a few African items, so I am not in a trustng mood.

Very Well Said about the "Nose" test Bill. In addition, these swords are Way more expensive in Russia/Ukraine than elsewhere, and will sell for much more without any problems, so why would one list it without even any reserve?Enough said.

Sorry about your African items. This is why I like wootz so much, no surprises here.

ariel · 16th April 2007, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannis

I was looking last shamshir too. It is a perfect piece. I was suspicious so I send a question to the seller. I never got an answer. After that I could not bid not a euro on that. Ukraine is not the place to mess with legal debates. I wish the buyer good luck.

You could have asked him one more time

This sword and the shield/helmet pair were sold again.
Either the original buyer backed off or the seller had yet more copies of his unique items

The saga continues...
I think we shall not see the buyer of both items on e-bay for a while: every bank account has its limits

ariel · 21st April 2007, 02:22 PM

I can't believe my eyes!
A certain spectacular shamshir

is back on the market after being sold TWICE already in the span of less that 2 weeks!

HUSAR · 21st April 2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I can't believe my eyes!
A certain spectacular shamshir

is back on the market after being sold TWICE already in the span of less that 2 weeks!

set of khud and shield and daggers as well

ausjulius · 25th April 2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Very Well Said about the "Nose" test Bill. In addition, these swords are Way more expensive in Russia/Ukraine than elsewhere, and will sell for much more without any problems, so why would one list it without even any reserve?Enough said.

Sorry about your African items. This is why I like wootz so much, no surprises here.

, hmm yes i would say , no matter how bad you want the swor, if it is listed from russia or the ukrain or belarus dont buy it,
1 , it is illegal to send them in the post anyway, as in these areas there is a law against sending edged items in the post,
so if found it can be taken by the state,

2, these items sell for as much as 2 x the price in russia than for wha they do in the rest of the world, . so it makes no sence that a owner would list it on ebay,
he coulld sell it to a collector for a good price in the country, and wouldnt have to worry about having the money taxed when he receved it (incoming money is harsly taxed, dosnt matter how you get it.. , if you arnt a businness and are getting money from anohter country the government wants some)

even in islolated places , like dagestan , ther eis in the large cities many big well stocked antique shops selling all manner of bulat bladed anrique arms, old flintlock postolr sheilds , ect ect, and mostly for rather high prioces, as ther eis a good market of collectors even in out of the way places,
dont buy these thigns, yes maybe if you come to russia it is good, see the thing and buy it, but no over the internet, there is a 100% chance that is a scam

ALEX · 26th April 2007, 08:21 AM

Ausjulius,
Thank you for sharing the information with us. It confirms what I heard from several other Russian and Dagestani dealers and collectors. Particularly, taking an antique Russian sword into Russia is no problem, and even encouraged, BUT taking it out by any means is very difficult.. and expensive on and under the table:-)

ausjulius · 26th April 2007, 11:19 AM

yeah, no kidding they pay 500$ or so for the soviet military shashkas :S...
and a good condition caucascian shashka,, no a folded or bulat bladed one, will cost 800 or more, .. 1000, for a bulat one the prices are interesting, if it is in condition, supply and demand i guess,
it swith all such things, like bayonets, military issue knives , ect ect, russians pay big prices for german trench knives and russian zik military knvies and such , in russia there is a large amount of nazi dress daggers and such, but still the price for such things is high,
same with all other military swords,
guess lots of people after such things,
even russians will buy shashkas and such in the west and bring them back home, as most of the time the price is lower,

id not trust any russian selling a sword or any old weapon on ebay, hes either a fool and knows nothing of these things (very unlikely) or hes a fraud...
sorry to say it..
then ofcrose also there is the laws........ :S.. knives and swords and such ,

ariel · 9th May 2007, 11:05 PM

Well, boys, here is another one: gorgeous Russian "Klych", sold for peanuts.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160114907693
And, surprise, surprise, it was sleeping all these years in Kiev, Ukraine.
Who is willing to bet a dollar that the lucky buyer will actually get it?
Any takers?

But what is interesting is the feedback record: very respectable, but quiet since 2002. The comments of the seller in the feedback section were in colloquial English. In contrast, description of the "sabre" is stilted and illiterate. In the past, the seller sold a lot of furniture, this time it is only swords. A question: is it possible for a faker to kidnap a dormant e-bay account ?

Rick · 10th May 2007, 02:28 AM

If you can imagine it Ariel it is probably possible.

RobT · 10th May 2007, 03:10 AM

Hi all,
Perhaps kidnapping isn't necessary. I imagine that a respectable account of a retiring or deceased seller would have market value in much the same way that a well regarded brand or company name does. So a seller (or the dead seller's relatives) could sell the account name. This sort of thing goes on all the time with brand and company names in the brick and mortar world. I wouldn't be surprised to see it become a common practice on the internet...if it isn't already. If ebay is lax in investigating and shutting down sites that commit the kind of fraud discussed in this thread, a respectable account would be especially valuable to con artists.
Sincerely,
RobT

Yannis · 10th May 2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Another marvel from Ukraine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shamshir-in-a-co...QQcmdZViewItem

Ebay finally closed the account. Read the last feedback. It is sad that at least 2 good users lost their money.

I had a good deal in the past with one of them and he is really a good ebayer

ariel · 14th July 2007, 05:25 AM

Well, boys, 3 is a charm...

It is the third time this sword had been sold..
Each time the price is getting lower. If we wait long enough, the seller will pay to whoever gets this masterpiece off his hands.
Sold through yet another account that had been inactive for more than 5 years...
I am wondering: does the e-bay get its fees from the seller?

Rick · 14th July 2007, 06:12 PM

Yes.

27th March 2007, 10:50 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Spectacular Kilij!!! Just ended... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150105564166 Seller's location, method of payment and the anonymity of bidding make me believe that whoever transfers money to the owner's bank account is for a big and unpleasant surprise.....

10th May 2007, 03:10 AM	#27
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 486	Account for sale Hi all, Perhaps kidnapping isn't necessary. I imagine that a respectable account of a retiring or deceased seller would have market value in much the same way that a well regarded brand or company name does. So a seller (or the dead seller's relatives) could sell the account name. This sort of thing goes on all the time with brand and company names in the brick and mortar world. I wouldn't be surprised to see it become a common practice on the internet...if it isn't already. If ebay is lax in investigating and shutting down sites that commit the kind of fraud discussed in this thread, a respectable account would be especially valuable to con artists. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 10th May 2007 at 03:19 AM. Reason: added opinion

14th July 2007, 06:12 PM	#30
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Fees From Seller Yes.

28th March 2007, 12:13 AM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Guess you could risk credit card payment via paypal, if you have good relationship with your credit cards legal department. Probably safer than going there to collect it, or bank transfer! Spiral

28th March 2007, 09:20 AM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599

28th March 2007, 01:57 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,113	[QUOTE=arielSeller's location, method of payment and the anonymity of bidding make me believe that whoever transfers money to the owner's bank account is for a big and unpleasant surprise.....[/QUOTE] I am afraid anonimity of the bidders is becoming the norm on eBay. It seems it is endorsed by eBay itself. The only thing i find obviously suspect on this auction is that the seller has absolutely no feedback. That in itself is enough to stop me from bidding on an item.

28th March 2007, 03:34 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Something in ths auction does not pass the "Nose Test." Just smells wrong! But Spiral is right. Always read the entire ad. I guess you could fund the PayPal with a credit card, but still, I would be nervous. However I was just given some incredibly bad advice from a Curator of Arfican Arts on the purchase of a few African items, so I am not in a trustng mood.

28th March 2007, 03:48 PM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I agree its probably dodgy, my credit card covers me well though, I guess cards smallprint & banking laws can very depending on which country ones based in. If I realy wanted it, I would have rung the CC legal department & asked if I was covered for buying antique swords from Ukraine via ebay. They give a straight yes or no & in past have always served me very well, with major purchases including secondhand cars & dodgy international sword dealers. But like ebay & paypal expieriences your milage may vary! Spiral

28th March 2007, 11:10 PM	#9
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	While I wouldn't want to make a blanket statement that all sellers from the Ukraine are scam artists it is a fact that several people have been "taken" by sellers from the Ukraine. There was an Ebay seller that posted several rather nice Chinese swords. The only payment policy was Western Union. I have heard of two people that made the purchase, sent the money, only to never have the sword show up. The pictures were rather similar to this sword.(Seems all swords are pictured on a sword stand.) I think it is important to spread the news about these type of things so other folks are not "taken" by such scams.

4th April 2007, 11:18 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Another one, even more spectacular, with a wootz blade! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9262&rd=1&rd=1 No bids. This is the second time this Kilij is listed on e-bay; it was already "sold" once.

5th April 2007, 01:15 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Ariel, the original listing mentioned was withdrawn and canceled by eBay. If this new listing is the item in question, then I like it, but it does have false damascus. IT is also listed from China.

6th April 2007, 11:35 PM	#13
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	One funny thing in the second kilij: The most positive feedbacks of the seller come from people who are "no longer register user" in Ebay. I wonder why all these good people left

10th April 2007, 09:59 AM	#14
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Another marvel from Ukraine: http://cgi.ebay.com/Shamshir-in-a-co...QQcmdZViewItem If you look closely - the rants of Kirk-Narduban look almost like they've been painted on the blade, too perfect. If the buyer gets it - what a deal!!!

10th April 2007, 12:37 PM	#15
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I was watching this one closely, together with 2 other spectaculat items that he was selling. The story is strange: the seller came out of nowhere with 333 positive feedbacks, all from a total of 5 or 6 sellers ( he was always a buyer), all items were bought in large batches, 30-60 of them in one fell swoop. Then he sold 3 decent European swods for modest sums and got positive feedbacks. Then, he put 3 spectacular Oriental swords including a Tulwar (misspelled) that Fiegel would have drooled over. Three days. Then, the next batch ( the shamshir, gorgeous shield/helmet and 2 fantastic daggers). Three days. "Do not ask me about the origin of these swords". Bank transfer only. If I were a suspicious man ( as Don Corleone used to say), I 'd have said that by the time swords are supposed to arrive from the Ukraine and feedback left, the seller would get all the bank transfers for these and, perhaps, for yet another batch or two ( 3 day listings). But I am a naive soul, believing in the innate goodness and honesty of all human beings. Congratulations to the winners!

11th April 2007, 06:38 AM	#17
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	I was looking last shamshir too. It is a perfect piece. I was suspicious so I send a question to the seller. I never got an answer. After that I could not bid not a euro on that. Ukraine is not the place to mess with legal debates. I wish the buyer good luck.

21st April 2007, 02:22 PM	#20
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I can't believe my eyes! A certain spectacular shamshir is back on the market after being sold TWICE already in the span of less that 2 weeks!

26th April 2007, 08:21 AM	#23
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Ausjulius, Thank you for sharing the information with us. It confirms what I heard from several other Russian and Dagestani dealers and collectors. Particularly, taking an antique Russian sword into Russia is no problem, and even encouraged, BUT taking it out by any means is very difficult.. and expensive on and under the table:-)

26th April 2007, 11:19 AM	#24
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 422	yeah, no kidding they pay 500$ or so for the soviet military shashkas :S... and a good condition caucascian shashka,, no a folded or bulat bladed one, will cost 800 or more, .. 1000, for a bulat one the prices are interesting, if it is in condition, supply and demand i guess, it swith all such things, like bayonets, military issue knives , ect ect, russians pay big prices for german trench knives and russian zik military knvies and such , in russia there is a large amount of nazi dress daggers and such, but still the price for such things is high, same with all other military swords, guess lots of people after such things, even russians will buy shashkas and such in the west and bring them back home, as most of the time the price is lower, id not trust any russian selling a sword or any old weapon on ebay, hes either a fool and knows nothing of these things (very unlikely) or hes a fraud... sorry to say it.. then ofcrose also there is the laws........ :S.. knives and swords and such ,

9th May 2007, 11:05 PM	#25
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, boys, here is another one: gorgeous Russian "Klych", sold for peanuts. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160114907693 And, surprise, surprise, it was sleeping all these years in Kiev, Ukraine. Who is willing to bet a dollar that the lucky buyer will actually get it? Any takers? But what is interesting is the feedback record: very respectable, but quiet since 2002. The comments of the seller in the feedback section were in colloquial English. In contrast, description of the "sabre" is stilted and illiterate. In the past, the seller sold a lot of furniture, this time it is only swords. A question: is it possible for a faker to kidnap a dormant e-bay account ?

10th May 2007, 02:28 AM	#26
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	If you can imagine it Ariel it is probably possible.

14th July 2007, 05:25 AM	#29
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, boys, 3 is a charm... It is the third time this sword had been sold.. Each time the price is getting lower. If we wait long enough, the seller will pay to whoever gets this masterpiece off his hands. Sold through yet another account that had been inactive for more than 5 years... I am wondering: does the e-bay get its fees from the seller?