Condition- What is acceptable???

Flavio · 27th February 2007, 06:52 PM

I completly agree with Bill and Rick: it's a personal question!! In general you can prefer a perfect piece, especially if the price is high, but you can also choose to buy pieces of a very low cost with a bad condition and try to restore it. Personally I try to purchase only pieces in a decent situation with a reasonable price, but also sometimes to buy a piece of rust will reserve some good surprises.

Bill M · 27th February 2007, 10:55 PM

One more thing. I NEVER use power tools like buffers on a blade. Several reasons.

1. It is very dangerous. You can catch the blade and hurt yourself.

2. I think it is bad for the metal. I don't know if this is true, but it seems to close up the pores in the metal. Hand sanding does not do this.

3. This is a very subjective thing, but I like the feeling of the metal when I clean it. I can sometimes feel things when I am hand cleaning or sanding a blade. It seems to respond; to communicate; to tell stories.

Many of our blades were battle weapons and were held by men (sometimes women) that were intensly involved. Life or death struggles. Maybe powerful ceremonies.

I feel that their intensity of emotion left an imprint on the weapon. Some pieces are said to have a "Jen" in them, put there by its maker. Another imprint.

Maybe I get a little metapyhsical, but I feel things when I hand polish a blade. I feel closer to the blade.

So here is my process. I take a blade and stop the active red rust. Then I get in a quiet place with it and begin with the very fine steel wool and WD-40 -- and I'll admit something here -- I like to do this by candle light and a little incense.

Then I slowly clean the blade from the hilt to the tip. I let the blade tell me what he wants. Super clean? A touch-up? Leave it alone?

That is how I decide --- now. Each blade is different and if you listen carefully enough each blade has a voice. The more I listen, the less they cut me.

Imagine that.

Alan62 · 8th March 2007, 05:19 AM

I buy the ones that ,for lack of a better term ,speak to me.
I would love it if they were all in perfect ,mint condition but I also love the really patinized ones as well as relics.
I have this one hanging on my wall next to others that are in very good condition and I am as proud of it as I am of my most minty one.

By the way Great question

Tim Simmons · 8th March 2007, 04:44 PM

I would agree with most of what has been said. I am a bit fussy when it comes to the item having a scabbard or not. It has to be very distinctive in form for me to accept no scabbard

.

I am really sorry but I am going to head off on a tangent but I am sure you will understand.

Alan62 could you please post a close up of that handle.

Bill M · 8th March 2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I would agree with most of what has been said. I am a bit fussy when it comes to the item having a scabbard or not. It has to be very distinctive in form for me to accept no scabbard

.

Tim,

To me, this very much depends on the item. I would not buy a Javanese, Balinese or peninsular keris without a scabbard. I think these go together since I consider them mostly as talismans and not primary battle weapons.

While I would like for everything, that ever had a scabbard to have one, I am ok with buying Moro kris without. I believe that since Moro kris were active battle weapons, often the scabbards were dropped when the fighting began and they never rejoined the blades.

Lew · 8th March 2007, 05:36 PM

[QUOTE=Bill Marsh]Tim,

To me, this very much depends on the item. I would not buy a Javanese, Balinese or peninsular keris without a scabbard. I think these go together since I consider them mostly as talismans and not primary battle weapons.

Bill

I would consider buying a keris without the scabbard granted the price is right. I'm more interested in the form of the forged blade and have picked up a few very nice truly old pieces for only a few dollars. Furniture on these keris blades are usually later add ons and not original to the blade plus I feel the spirit is in the steel blade and not the furniture. As far as condition goes I try to buy pieces that do not have too much damage to the blade and hilt rust is not a big problem for me as long as it has not eaten away the blade.

Lew

Bill M · 8th March 2007, 08:40 PM

I agree, Lew that the furniture or dress is not usually original to the dress. It can be changed several times during the lifetime of each owner. But iI have a problem getting good dress. If I make it myself, it will look like I did!

And somehow a naked Javanese keris laying in my case just looks wrong. The hilts are availiable, but the scabbards are hard to find.

Perhaps one day my woodworking skills will improve, or I'll get a contact who can make good dress.

But I would certainly not turn down a good blade because it had no dress, I would just prefer that it did.

I also agree with you that the blade is the most important part of any kris/kris.

8th March 2007, 04:44 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I would agree with most of what has been said. I am a bit fussy when it comes to the item having a scabbard or not. It has to be very distinctive in form for me to accept no scabbard . I am really sorry but I am going to head off on a tangent but I am sure you will understand. Alan62 could you please post a close up of that handle. Attached Images

27th February 2007, 06:52 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	I completly agree with Bill and Rick: it's a personal question!! In general you can prefer a perfect piece, especially if the price is high, but you can also choose to buy pieces of a very low cost with a bad condition and try to restore it. Personally I try to purchase only pieces in a decent situation with a reasonable price, but also sometimes to buy a piece of rust will reserve some good surprises.

27th February 2007, 10:55 PM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	One more thing. I NEVER use power tools like buffers on a blade. Several reasons. 1. It is very dangerous. You can catch the blade and hurt yourself. 2. I think it is bad for the metal. I don't know if this is true, but it seems to close up the pores in the metal. Hand sanding does not do this. 3. This is a very subjective thing, but I like the feeling of the metal when I clean it. I can sometimes feel things when I am hand cleaning or sanding a blade. It seems to respond; to communicate; to tell stories. Many of our blades were battle weapons and were held by men (sometimes women) that were intensly involved. Life or death struggles. Maybe powerful ceremonies. I feel that their intensity of emotion left an imprint on the weapon. Some pieces are said to have a "Jen" in them, put there by its maker. Another imprint. Maybe I get a little metapyhsical, but I feel things when I hand polish a blade. I feel closer to the blade. So here is my process. I take a blade and stop the active red rust. Then I get in a quiet place with it and begin with the very fine steel wool and WD-40 -- and I'll admit something here -- I like to do this by candle light and a little incense. Then I slowly clean the blade from the hilt to the tip. I let the blade tell me what he wants. Super clean? A touch-up? Leave it alone? That is how I decide --- now. Each blade is different and if you listen carefully enough each blade has a voice. The more I listen, the less they cut me. Imagine that.

8th March 2007, 05:19 AM	#3
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	I buy the ones that ,for lack of a better term ,speak to me. I would love it if they were all in perfect ,mint condition but I also love the really patinized ones as well as relics. I have this one hanging on my wall next to others that are in very good condition and I am as proud of it as I am of my most minty one. By the way Great question

8th March 2007, 05:36 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Bill Marsh]Tim, To me, this very much depends on the item. I would not buy a Javanese, Balinese or peninsular keris without a scabbard. I think these go together since I consider them mostly as talismans and not primary battle weapons. Bill I would consider buying a keris without the scabbard granted the price is right. I'm more interested in the form of the forged blade and have picked up a few very nice truly old pieces for only a few dollars. Furniture on these keris blades are usually later add ons and not original to the blade plus I feel the spirit is in the steel blade and not the furniture. As far as condition goes I try to buy pieces that do not have too much damage to the blade and hilt rust is not a big problem for me as long as it has not eaten away the blade. Lew

8th March 2007, 08:40 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I agree, Lew that the furniture or dress is not usually original to the dress. It can be changed several times during the lifetime of each owner. But iI have a problem getting good dress. If I make it myself, it will look like I did! And somehow a naked Javanese keris laying in my case just looks wrong. The hilts are availiable, but the scabbards are hard to find. Perhaps one day my woodworking skills will improve, or I'll get a contact who can make good dress. But I would certainly not turn down a good blade because it had no dress, I would just prefer that it did. I also agree with you that the blade is the most important part of any kris/kris.