![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]()
I just updated my collection pages with 5 Keris I found when in Denmark earlier this Fall.
The first 3 actually were found in a seller's junkbox. All comments appreciated. Keris Terengganu Pipit Teleng http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Keris Bugis Sampir Penghulu (Sumatran or Malaysian?) http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Keris Sajen Luk http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Keris Bali with painted sheath and unusual hilt. http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Kalis Taluseko Sulu with Javanese resembling sheath http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php I hope the Kampungnet database doesn't go down again like yesterday... Michael Last edited by VVV; 31st October 2006 at 11:28 AM. Reason: added pictures |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,100
|
![]()
Well i guess Denmark isn't all that strange a place to come across these. Mads Lange was probably the most famous Dane who lived and traded in Indonesia (mostly in Bali) and he left quite a legacy behind him.
These all look very interesting Michael. I hope to have a more detailed look later. Thanks for showing. BTW, feel free to upload more photos onto this site. That way we won't have to worry whether Kampungnet is up or not and we will also have these images in our data base as well. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Hi Michael, all these pieces are beautiful, but the kalis is very elegant!!! Congratulations dear friend
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]()
Thanks David and Flavio,
Yes Mads Lange was one of the first but several other Danes also visited the Archipelago. When you see how many pictures I have on Kampungnet maybe you agree it's better to only upload a sample of each on the forum for those interested? ![]() Look forward to your comments and corrections. Michael |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,100
|
![]()
Oh, Michael, i wasn't suggesting you upload ALL of them.
![]() Just a few of each, maybe an overall of the blade and a detail for instance. ![]() I also agree that the Kalis is beautiful. Given it's greneng pattern and the very Indonesian sheath i wonder about the Sulu attribution. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
Michael:
That Kalis Sulu is beautiful. The ivory kakatua is considerably smaller than most. Do you have any idea where this one originated? I'm wondering if it came from Brunei or Malaysia because it is somewhat atypical for a traditional Moro kris. Lovely pieces all. Ian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]()
Thanks Ian,
I suspect that it maybe could come from NW Borneo based on the motifs on the silver band. But that's just a guess and I still think it's Sulu. Please convince me if that's not the case? David, Here are some additional blade pictures. They are in the same order as above. In case you want to watch them "the proper way" please go to Kampungnet or turn them in your viewer. Michael PS Something strange happened when uploading? The order is now Sajen, Bugis, Terengganu, Bali and Sulu(?). Last edited by VVV; 31st October 2006 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Something went wrong with the upload |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]()
Well, also the bali is wonderful!!!
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]() Quote:
The reason that I think it is odd for Sulu (that is, Moro) is the hilt: a smaller than average kakatua and the continuous silver wrap to the hilt which has an octagonal "tubular" apeparance. The usual form of Moro silver hilt dress would be circular or oval bands of silver that overlap. Also, there is a small "lip" to the silver handle sheath just above the gangya -- not commonlty seen on Moro weapons. That said, there was a lot of interaction between the Sulu and Brunei Sultanates, so some diffusion of styles each way probably occurred. Indeed "Sulu" has sometimes been used to include Brunei, so we may be splitting hairs. None of which alters the fact that it is a lovely kris. Ian. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]()
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your explanation. I also find what you exemplify quite odd. There is one Kris in Leiden, collected in Sulu, that looks like it has just as small pommel as mine. It also looks like as if the hilt on the Kris "Andus" in E Banks article The Keris Sulok or Sundang, has an octagonal hilt (really dark pictures in that old article so hard to see for sure)? And then I have this Kris in my collection, that I also thought was Sulu? http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Maybe they are related? On the lip I haven't found any other example yet with that feature? Michael PS Flavio, what's wrong with Bugis Keris? ![]() Last edited by VVV; 31st October 2006 at 09:03 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
|
![]() Quote:
Hi Michael, nothing at all (my only keris is a bugis ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
Thanks Michael.
What I meant to say is that an octagonal hilt, per se, is not rare on Moro kris, but a continuous silver "sleeve" as shown in your first example above is something that I have not seen before. Perhaps I have just not seen enough high end beauties like these. ![]() Your second example looks more traditional and appears to be a Mindanao kris, most likely Maranao -- the "elephant trunk" area is of the Maranao form (according to Cato). The octagonal handle is wrapped with silver wire to conform to the underlying shape of the handle, although the small band holding the baca baca is circular. The ivory kakatua is small but of traditional shape -- probably late 19th or early 20th C. but could be earlier. The scabbard fits with a Mindanao kris of around that period also. So this one looks a typical Moro kris all round, perhaps redressed around 1900 +/-. The blade looks considerably older than the hilt and scabbard. The one at the top of the post still has me baffled as to where it originated. Regards, Ian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]()
Thanks Ian,
I obviously misunderstood your first comment. On the second Kris I also classified it as a Maranao blade at first according to Cato. At that time I decided to try to better figure out the Cato classification method and sent pictures as well as my classifications of my Kris to a more experienced member on this before publishing them on the Internet. And that's why it was changed to Sulu on both blade and scabbard for this Kris. This was some time ago and I don't remember why he insisted it was Sulu? I will e-mail him about it again. Probably it's time for me to revise my Moro Kris classifications? Thanks for bringing this up. Michael |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]()
Ian,
I haven't recieved any response from my original source. So I will change it on my collection pages to your classification based on Cato. Thanks again for bringing this up. No more comments on the Indonesian Keris??? Michael |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]() Quote:
I have been doing some research on this Kris but no success so far. Maybe it is from Malaysia as you suggest? I found this illustration (blew up the relevant part of it) of Sultan Abdullah and chiefs of Perak from 1878. Michael |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|