Is this a Batangas piece?

Battara · 29th October 2006, 10:10 PM

I have forgotten, but is this Batangas or Tagalog?

http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq1492.html

Ian · 30th October 2006, 01:16 AM

Hi Jose:

Bantangas would not be my first thought. Could be from Ilocos, Pangasinan or Pampanga. I think it has a strong Spanish colonial influence from north of Manila.

Ian.

Battara · 30th October 2006, 07:39 PM

Thank you Ian, I have a similar piece and was wondering. One day I may take some pictures and post.

zelbone · 31st October 2006, 06:49 AM

Tabaks from north central Luzon...Pampanga or Pangasinan. The chopped tips comply with Spanish law at that time that bolos could not have sharp points because they were considered "threatening." The long tabak has a bone hilt.

Battara · 31st October 2006, 07:29 PM

Thanks Zel. Very helpful. On your example on the bottom, does it have a sunburst/flower on the butt ? Mine does and I was thinking that this is a Katipunan piece. What do you think? (When I get pictures I'll post).

zelbone · 1st November 2006, 12:21 AM

No sunburst pattern on the butt of my sword. It could very well be a Katipunan...at least from the same time period.

Ian · 3rd November 2006, 10:01 PM

Hi Zel:

I was interested to see you use the term "tabak" to describe this blade. As I recall, "tabak" refers to a blade mainly for chopping or cutting, whereas "tusok" or "matulis" refers to pointed blades better adapted for stabbing.

The word "tabak" also means tobacco in a couple of European languages, and I wonder whether this blade style was originally popular among Filipino tobacco farmers (who are mostly from the northern areas of Luzon), hence a "tabak," which later came to mean a bolo for chopping. Seems plausible. Any thoughts?

BTW, in some southern areas of the US where tobacco is grown a machete is often termed a "tobacco knife."

Ian.

zelbone · 4th November 2006, 03:38 AM

Hi Ian!
Well since those swords I posted aren't pointed I didn't want to call them matulis.....which means pointed in tagalog.

Tabak is the term I've heard referred to these types, but could also describe other blade forms. Sticking with tagalog I probably also would have just called them itak, or if I was in Batangas, gulok. But Luzon sandata isn't my specialty. Tabak possibly could have been derived from tobacco...Tabacalara is the largest cigar manufacturer in the Philippines ( the 1881 Robusto reminds me of a Partagas #10.)

Zel

Battara · 22nd November 2006, 09:15 PM

Finally, here are pictures of my now Pampangan piece. Hilt is brass with some zinc(?) or greenish metal in the spiral. Somewhat laminated, the brass flower/sun is on the butt (not on mine

) and the leather sheath has shrunk over the years and no longer completely fits the blade.

Thanks for all your help.

31st October 2006, 06:49 AM	#4
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	not Batangueno Tabaks from north central Luzon...Pampanga or Pangasinan. The chopped tips comply with Spanish law at that time that bolos could not have sharp points because they were considered "threatening." The long tabak has a bone hilt. Attached Images

3rd November 2006, 10:01 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Origin of "tabak" Hi Zel: I was interested to see you use the term "tabak" to describe this blade. As I recall, "tabak" refers to a blade mainly for chopping or cutting, whereas "tusok" or "matulis" refers to pointed blades better adapted for stabbing. The word "tabak" also means tobacco in a couple of European languages, and I wonder whether this blade style was originally popular among Filipino tobacco farmers (who are mostly from the northern areas of Luzon), hence a "tabak," which later came to mean a bolo for chopping. Seems plausible. Any thoughts? BTW, in some southern areas of the US where tobacco is grown a machete is often termed a "tobacco knife." Ian.

22nd November 2006, 09:15 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Finally, here are pictures of my now Pampangan piece. Hilt is brass with some zinc(?) or greenish metal in the spiral. Somewhat laminated, the brass flower/sun is on the butt (not on mine ) and the leather sheath has shrunk over the years and no longer completely fits the blade. Thanks for all your help. Attached Images

29th October 2006, 10:10 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Is this a Batangas piece? I have forgotten, but is this Batangas or Tagalog? http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq1492.html

30th October 2006, 01:16 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Hi Jose: Bantangas would not be my first thought. Could be from Ilocos, Pangasinan or Pampanga. I think it has a strong Spanish colonial influence from north of Manila. Ian.

30th October 2006, 07:39 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Thank you Ian, I have a similar piece and was wondering. One day I may take some pictures and post.

31st October 2006, 07:29 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Thanks Zel. Very helpful. On your example on the bottom, does it have a sunburst/flower on the butt ? Mine does and I was thinking that this is a Katipunan piece. What do you think? (When I get pictures I'll post).

1st November 2006, 12:21 AM	#6
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	No sunburst pattern on the butt of my sword. It could very well be a Katipunan...at least from the same time period.

4th November 2006, 03:38 AM	#8
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Hi Ian! Well since those swords I posted aren't pointed I didn't want to call them matulis.....which means pointed in tagalog. Tabak is the term I've heard referred to these types, but could also describe other blade forms. Sticking with tagalog I probably also would have just called them itak, or if I was in Batangas, gulok. But Luzon sandata isn't my specialty. Tabak possibly could have been derived from tobacco...Tabacalara is the largest cigar manufacturer in the Philippines ( the 1881 Robusto reminds me of a Partagas #10.) Zel