of Shuriken and throwing stars

not2sharp · 18th October 2006, 05:41 AM

Our search engine failed to turn anything up so I though this would be worth a few lines.

Like the many who grew up during the 60s and 70s I couldn't help but be exposed to the countless kung-fu movies that were so popular at the time. We seemed to have an endless tolerance for badly dubbed cheap films, with plenty of corny acrobatics, much yelling, and an endless supply of broken crockery.

It was fun to watch the various heros and villans battle it out with exotic weapons; how refreshing after the many decades of bowie knives and six shooters; the long ranged weapons here took the form of spears, arrows, and frequently throwing stars. But, what of those throwing stars; spears and arrows we know well; but, it dawns on me that I have never actually seen an original antique star-shaped shuriken. Did these ever exist, or did Hollywood simply discover a new use for those many thousands of old spurs they once had in their prop rooms?

Here is some theme music:

http://rosemck1.tripod.com/ive-got-s...gle-jingle.mid

n2s

katana · 18th October 2006, 11:30 AM

Like you , I too was brought up with kung fu movies and Bruce Lee

As far as I know shuriken did exist....but these were the tools of the Ninja....trained assassins whom carried an arsenal of concealed weapons and diversionary equipment.
I have seen pictures of old shuriken which had 4 and 5 'points', I think that these tended to be used to surprise/ injure ......if you believe the films each one thrown would kill its intended target

The Ninja were very...very secretative and greatly feared, they were efficent killers, trained in stealth they were unoffically employed by various warlords to assassinate rivals.

Rich · 18th October 2006, 11:50 AM

I believe the terminology is incorrect. A shuriken is a straight, small knife.
A throwing star is properly termed a "shaken" I think. We went thru this
terminology thing here (Virginia) a couple years ago when our astute
legislators decided to outlaw carry and possesion of "Ninja weapons" as
being a dangerous public safety issue. Of course there are NO recorded
cases in the police records of anyone being assaulted by shaken, shuriken,
numchuks, etc. There are known cases of idiots hitting themselves in the
head causing serious injury with numchuks :-)

Rich

not2sharp · 18th October 2006, 03:29 PM

This is alleged to be a photo of a Japanese museum exhibit. But, there is no information - not even a caption.

more here:
http://web-japan.org/museum/others/n...2/tools01.html

n2s

S.Al-Anizi · 18th October 2006, 03:44 PM

Real or not, these things probably wont kill a well clothed man, let alone an armoured one. I never believed in 'ninja' stuff anyway. Hollywood

not2sharp · 18th October 2006, 03:48 PM

But wait, the same site even has ninja swords.....

here:
http://web-japan.org/museum/others/n...tools07_1.html

n2s

S.Al-Anizi · 18th October 2006, 03:54 PM

Ever seen this site?

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

mross · 18th October 2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I believe the terminology is incorrect. A shuriken is a straight, small knife.
A throwing star is properly termed a "shaken" I think. We went thru this
terminology thing here (Virginia) a couple years ago when our astute
legislators decided to outlaw carry and possesion of "Ninja weapons" as
being a dangerous public safety issue. Of course there are NO recorded
cases in the police records of anyone being assaulted by shaken, shuriken,
numchuks, etc. There are known cases of idiots hitting themselves in the
head causing serious injury with numchuks :-)

Rich

I have learned this terminlogy as correct for the descriptions also. You probaly don't see much of them as they were throw-away weapons. Sort of like kids throwing sand in someones face then pounding on the target, course this was a little more serious.

If you look at a shaken it's not designed to kill, points are short and the central part precludes it going very deep to hit vital spots. The shuriken from the books I have read was not usually thrown but used from a point of concealment in the hand to rake the eyes and hit other vital targets; throat, ear, groin etc. Either way both were used to distract so the user could finish the job.

not2sharp · 18th October 2006, 06:46 PM

Before we debate how these may have been used; it is important to confirm that they existed and in which forms. I have been collecting sharp pointy things for a long time and I have yet to encounter an old period throwing star. You would think that a few would have been unearth in battlefield excavations, or turned up as some veterans' war souvenirs. But, they only seem to turn up in pages of recent martial arts magazines; and, not a single period photo, not a single documented archelogical dig, not a single period sketch or painting, nor, anything resembling a likely early example. Effective weapons tend to be imitated; yet nothing even close has surfaced throughout the region. I would like to say it's bunk, I believe the whole concept a Hollywood invention; but, it is hard to prove a negative. Which is why I have posted it here; to see if any of our many collectors of oriental arms have come across anything that resembles a genuine example or reference.

n2s

katana · 18th October 2006, 08:51 PM

This is quite informative....well worth the read..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuriken

katana · 18th October 2006, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

But wait, the same site even has ninja swords.....

here:
http://web-japan.org/museum/others/n...tools07_1.html

n2s

The Ninja versions of the katana were shorter, tended to have blackened blades, so as to be non reflective (concealment was the name of the game) and the guard (tsuba) tended to be larger and often square..ish. There is apparently a reason for this....but I cant remember what it was

RobT · 20th October 2006, 04:20 AM

Hi Katana,
I have heard that the ninja sword guards were square so that they could be used as a foot rest to give a boost when scaling a low wall.
Sincerely,
RobT

fearn · 20th October 2006, 05:22 AM

Hi All,

A couple of notes: Yes, shuriken are an old weapon. Classical Weaponry of Japan by Serge Mol have a number pictured (including one on the cover), and interestingly, they don't all look like the modern six-pointers shown. Many schools seemed to have their own "signature" throwing weapons. This book is also neat for the number of old Japanese weapons. Many of them I've never heard of (or seen) elsewhere, but I think that they're simply unknown outside of Japanese museums and collections.

Anyway, while shurikens are old, I'm not sure the same is true of the "ninja-to" (straight bladed wakizashi with a square guard). After all, if you're a spy/terrorist/infiltrator, why run around with a sword that instantly identifies you as such and is difficult to hide? Check out the

Wikipedia article, which suggests that the ninjatos that are everywhere are a modern invention. I'd love to see an old ninja-to that matches this description.

my 0.02 cents,

F

VANDOO · 20th October 2006, 05:51 AM

I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A THROWER OF STUFF MY FOOD WHEN I WAS A BABY AND LATER ANYTHING I COULD GET MY HANDS ON. IN ELEMENTRY SCHOOL I SPECIALIZED IN STICKS (SPEARS OR THROWING STICK) AND WAS ESPECIALLY GOOD WITH ROCKS. I COULD USUALLY HIT ANYTHING I THREW AT FROM GROUND SQUIRRLS TO TREE SQURRILS, RABITS OR BIRDS. I ALSO GOT INTO TROUBBLE FOR INJURING OTHER KIDS IN ROCK FIGHTS. IN LATER YEARS I PRACTICED WITH CHEAP THROWING KNIVES AND THE ODD METAL SPIKE I COULD FIND. SO IT IS NO SUPRIZE THAT WHEN SURIKINS SHOWED UP I GOT SOME AND HAVE ENJOYED PRACTICING WITH THEM FOR MANY YEARS. I GOT FAIRLY GOOD IN THE LATE 1970'S AS I WAS WORKING ON AN OFFSHORE PLATFORM ON A SHIFT BY MYSELF SO IN 7 DAYS WORKING A 12 HOUR SHIFT I FOUND A LOT OF TIME TO PRACTICE. I HAVE A SELECTION OF THEM AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE IF I CAN GET THEM ALL TOGETHER I WILL TRY AND GET SOME PICTURES TO POST WHEN TIME ALLOWS.

not2sharp · 21st October 2006, 05:05 AM

Here is a very good website on shurikens - the links on the home page are also worth checking.

http://www.secrets-of-shuriken.com.au/index1.htm

n2s

tsubame1 · 21st October 2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Al-Anizi

Ever seen this site?

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

LOL !!

This is a good one too :

http://askaninja.com/tags/askaninja

tsubame1 · 21st October 2006, 06:02 PM

To have a glint about the origin of the myth related to straight NinjaTo
search for "KinnoTo". These are KinnoTo examples made in late EdoJidai :

18th October 2006, 05:41 AM	#1
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	of Shuriken and throwing stars Our search engine failed to turn anything up so I though this would be worth a few lines. Like the many who grew up during the 60s and 70s I couldn't help but be exposed to the countless kung-fu movies that were so popular at the time. We seemed to have an endless tolerance for badly dubbed cheap films, with plenty of corny acrobatics, much yelling, and an endless supply of broken crockery. It was fun to watch the various heros and villans battle it out with exotic weapons; how refreshing after the many decades of bowie knives and six shooters; the long ranged weapons here took the form of spears, arrows, and frequently throwing stars. But, what of those throwing stars; spears and arrows we know well; but, it dawns on me that I have never actually seen an original antique star-shaped shuriken. Did these ever exist, or did Hollywood simply discover a new use for those many thousands of old spurs they once had in their prop rooms? Here is some theme music: http://rosemck1.tripod.com/ive-got-s...gle-jingle.mid n2s Last edited by not2sharp; 18th October 2006 at 05:54 AM.

18th October 2006, 11:30 AM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Like you , I too was brought up with kung fu movies and Bruce Lee As far as I know shuriken did exist....but these were the tools of the Ninja....trained assassins whom carried an arsenal of concealed weapons and diversionary equipment. I have seen pictures of old shuriken which had 4 and 5 'points', I think that these tended to be used to surprise/ injure ......if you believe the films each one thrown would kill its intended target The Ninja were very...very secretative and greatly feared, they were efficent killers, trained in stealth they were unoffically employed by various warlords to assassinate rivals.

18th October 2006, 11:50 AM	#3
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I believe the terminology is incorrect. A shuriken is a straight, small knife. A throwing star is properly termed a "shaken" I think. We went thru this terminology thing here (Virginia) a couple years ago when our astute legislators decided to outlaw carry and possesion of "Ninja weapons" as being a dangerous public safety issue. Of course there are NO recorded cases in the police records of anyone being assaulted by shaken, shuriken, numchuks, etc. There are known cases of idiots hitting themselves in the head causing serious injury with numchuks :-) Rich

18th October 2006, 03:29 PM	#4
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	This is alleged to be a photo of a Japanese museum exhibit. But, there is no information - not even a caption. more here: http://web-japan.org/museum/others/n...2/tools01.html n2s

18th October 2006, 03:44 PM	#5
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Real or not, these things probably wont kill a well clothed man, let alone an armoured one. I never believed in 'ninja' stuff anyway. Hollywood

18th October 2006, 03:48 PM	#6
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	But wait, the same site even has ninja swords..... here: http://web-japan.org/museum/others/n...tools07_1.html n2s

18th October 2006, 03:54 PM	#7
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Ever seen this site? http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

18th October 2006, 06:46 PM	#9
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	Before we debate how these may have been used; it is important to confirm that they existed and in which forms. I have been collecting sharp pointy things for a long time and I have yet to encounter an old period throwing star. You would think that a few would have been unearth in battlefield excavations, or turned up as some veterans' war souvenirs. But, they only seem to turn up in pages of recent martial arts magazines; and, not a single period photo, not a single documented archelogical dig, not a single period sketch or painting, nor, anything resembling a likely early example. Effective weapons tend to be imitated; yet nothing even close has surfaced throughout the region. I would like to say it's bunk, I believe the whole concept a Hollywood invention; but, it is hard to prove a negative. Which is why I have posted it here; to see if any of our many collectors of oriental arms have come across anything that resembles a genuine example or reference. n2s

18th October 2006, 08:51 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	This is quite informative....well worth the read.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuriken

20th October 2006, 04:20 AM	#12
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Hi Katana, I have heard that the ninja sword guards were square so that they could be used as a foot rest to give a boost when scaling a low wall. Sincerely, RobT

20th October 2006, 05:22 AM	#13
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi All, A couple of notes: Yes, shuriken are an old weapon. Classical Weaponry of Japan by Serge Mol have a number pictured (including one on the cover), and interestingly, they don't all look like the modern six-pointers shown. Many schools seemed to have their own "signature" throwing weapons. This book is also neat for the number of old Japanese weapons. Many of them I've never heard of (or seen) elsewhere, but I think that they're simply unknown outside of Japanese museums and collections. Anyway, while shurikens are old, I'm not sure the same is true of the "ninja-to" (straight bladed wakizashi with a square guard). After all, if you're a spy/terrorist/infiltrator, why run around with a sword that instantly identifies you as such and is difficult to hide? Check out the Wikipedia article, which suggests that the ninjatos that are everywhere are a modern invention. I'd love to see an old ninja-to that matches this description. my 0.02 cents, F

20th October 2006, 05:51 AM	#14
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A THROWER OF STUFF MY FOOD WHEN I WAS A BABY AND LATER ANYTHING I COULD GET MY HANDS ON. IN ELEMENTRY SCHOOL I SPECIALIZED IN STICKS (SPEARS OR THROWING STICK) AND WAS ESPECIALLY GOOD WITH ROCKS. I COULD USUALLY HIT ANYTHING I THREW AT FROM GROUND SQUIRRLS TO TREE SQURRILS, RABITS OR BIRDS. I ALSO GOT INTO TROUBBLE FOR INJURING OTHER KIDS IN ROCK FIGHTS. IN LATER YEARS I PRACTICED WITH CHEAP THROWING KNIVES AND THE ODD METAL SPIKE I COULD FIND. SO IT IS NO SUPRIZE THAT WHEN SURIKINS SHOWED UP I GOT SOME AND HAVE ENJOYED PRACTICING WITH THEM FOR MANY YEARS. I GOT FAIRLY GOOD IN THE LATE 1970'S AS I WAS WORKING ON AN OFFSHORE PLATFORM ON A SHIFT BY MYSELF SO IN 7 DAYS WORKING A 12 HOUR SHIFT I FOUND A LOT OF TIME TO PRACTICE. I HAVE A SELECTION OF THEM AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE IF I CAN GET THEM ALL TOGETHER I WILL TRY AND GET SOME PICTURES TO POST WHEN TIME ALLOWS.

21st October 2006, 05:05 AM	#15
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	Here is a very good website on shurikens - the links on the home page are also worth checking. http://www.secrets-of-shuriken.com.au/index1.htm n2s

21st October 2006, 06:02 PM	#17
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	To have a glint about the origin of the myth related to straight NinjaTo search for "KinnoTo". These are KinnoTo examples made in late EdoJidai :