Sboula for Comments - Page 2

TVV · 9th October 2023, 06:24 AM

Very interesting and somewhat unique. The silver filigree in the middle of the scabbard is not what we typically see on Moroccan weapons.

werecow · 3rd November 2024, 03:38 PM

I've recently acquired this s'boula which has similar markings on the blade, so I thought I'd add it here. Total length 74.5 cm; blade length 60 cm; grip width 11.3 cm; grip thickness 2.5 cm. Some unfortunate pitting and the grip wire is a little loose, but I thought it was an interesting example nonetheless.

Point is sharp as a needle! Is anything known about the use and history of these? Shape-wise the grip reminds me a bit of baselard daggers, but the blade is as pointy as those of a rondel dagger (but with a different cross section and not as thick). I could see it being used against mail armor, although I wonder if the blade is robust enough to withstand the forces involved there.

TVV · 3rd November 2024, 06:33 PM

Nice and complete sboula. Good questions on the history and use of these.

The hilt does indeed look like it was inspired by the baselards. This probably is not that surprising as most Moroccan weapon forms seem to have been directly inspired by European forms from the 15-16 centuries, mixed with Ottoman influence. The koummaya hilt is reminiscent of cinquedea hilts with an Ottoman khanjar blade. The genoui seems directly evolved from Italian daggers. The nimcha, which we have discussed at greater length is likely derived from the storta with an Eastern grip. And the firearms and their accessories, such as powder flasks are clearly based on Northern European examples of that time.

The blades are a separate story. Many seem to be made from cut down European swords, or in imitation of cut down blades. And they have a pointy tip to allow for stabbing. They seem to occupy the middle ground between a nimcha, as Moroccan 19th century nimchas tend to be long sabers and the shorter daggers like koummayas and genouis. It would make a perfect side arm for a rifleman, just like in the picture we have. Still looking at that picture, it is also worn tucked in a belt, kind of like a yataghan.

Finally, it was common in the past to have certain social norms and regulations as to who can wear what kind of weapon. The Ottomans prohibited peasants, both Chritian and Muslim ones from wearing swords, which in some ways led to the development of the yataghan as a very long knife for self-defense. In Europe there was the bauerwehr parallel. Tuaregs with their highly stratified society also limited lower classes and slaves to wearing a wrist knife, and there are some telek daggers and Tebu daggers that approximate short swords in size probably as an attempt to provide a usable side arm for someone not allowed to carry an actual sword. Hard to tell whether the sboula developed along similar lines as a weapon for lower classes or if it just made a better side arm for an infantryman, for whom a full-size sword would be too big, but both are possible.

Anyway, just my ramblings on the topic.

roanoa · 6th November 2024, 12:06 AM

Behold, the power of rumors.... When Linbert published his ground braking booklet on African weapons, there was indeed very little published on the subject. And whatever he said in his booklet was taken by most as gospel. However, the mistakes are many. Including the sboula being manufactured by the Fellashas. Where did he get that idea? Rumor (again) says that some were inscribed in Ge'ez. Was the strange "lettering" on the blade mistake for the very obscure amharic/ge'ez writing? I, for one, would LOVE to see such a blade before making any additional comment.

TVV · 6th November 2024, 02:24 AM

I believe Lindert got the idea from the seller who sold him the sboula. It looks like his travels were predominantly in Eastern Africa, and therefore whatever he bought there, he simply ascribed to the location where he bought it, along with whatever tales the sellers gave him. In a day and age without internet and less than scholarly approach to collecting arms and armor from Africa, anything published was propagated as the truth. We are fortunate to have the benefit of better sources and works on the subject more than half a century later.

3rd November 2024, 03:38 PM	#32
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	I've recently acquired this s'boula which has similar markings on the blade, so I thought I'd add it here. Total length 74.5 cm; blade length 60 cm; grip width 11.3 cm; grip thickness 2.5 cm. Some unfortunate pitting and the grip wire is a little loose, but I thought it was an interesting example nonetheless. Point is sharp as a needle! Is anything known about the use and history of these? Shape-wise the grip reminds me a bit of baselard daggers, but the blade is as pointy as those of a rondel dagger (but with a different cross section and not as thick). I could see it being used against mail armor, although I wonder if the blade is robust enough to withstand the forces involved there. Attached Images

3rd November 2024, 06:33 PM	#33
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Nice and complete sboula. Good questions on the history and use of these. The hilt does indeed look like it was inspired by the baselards. This probably is not that surprising as most Moroccan weapon forms seem to have been directly inspired by European forms from the 15-16 centuries, mixed with Ottoman influence. The koummaya hilt is reminiscent of cinquedea hilts with an Ottoman khanjar blade. The genoui seems directly evolved from Italian daggers. The nimcha, which we have discussed at greater length is likely derived from the storta with an Eastern grip. And the firearms and their accessories, such as powder flasks are clearly based on Northern European examples of that time. The blades are a separate story. Many seem to be made from cut down European swords, or in imitation of cut down blades. And they have a pointy tip to allow for stabbing. They seem to occupy the middle ground between a nimcha, as Moroccan 19th century nimchas tend to be long sabers and the shorter daggers like koummayas and genouis. It would make a perfect side arm for a rifleman, just like in the picture we have. Still looking at that picture, it is also worn tucked in a belt, kind of like a yataghan. Finally, it was common in the past to have certain social norms and regulations as to who can wear what kind of weapon. The Ottomans prohibited peasants, both Chritian and Muslim ones from wearing swords, which in some ways led to the development of the yataghan as a very long knife for self-defense. In Europe there was the bauerwehr parallel. Tuaregs with their highly stratified society also limited lower classes and slaves to wearing a wrist knife, and there are some telek daggers and Tebu daggers that approximate short swords in size probably as an attempt to provide a usable side arm for someone not allowed to carry an actual sword. Hard to tell whether the sboula developed along similar lines as a weapon for lower classes or if it just made a better side arm for an infantryman, for whom a full-size sword would be too big, but both are possible. Anyway, just my ramblings on the topic. Attached Images

9th October 2023, 06:24 AM	#31
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Very interesting and somewhat unique. The silver filigree in the middle of the scabbard is not what we typically see on Moroccan weapons.

6th November 2024, 12:06 AM	#34
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Behold, the power of rumors.... When Linbert published his ground braking booklet on African weapons, there was indeed very little published on the subject. And whatever he said in his booklet was taken by most as gospel. However, the mistakes are many. Including the sboula being manufactured by the Fellashas. Where did he get that idea? Rumor (again) says that some were inscribed in Ge'ez. Was the strange "lettering" on the blade mistake for the very obscure amharic/ge'ez writing? I, for one, would LOVE to see such a blade before making any additional comment.

6th November 2024, 02:24 AM	#35
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	I believe Lindert got the idea from the seller who sold him the sboula. It looks like his travels were predominantly in Eastern Africa, and therefore whatever he bought there, he simply ascribed to the location where he bought it, along with whatever tales the sellers gave him. In a day and age without internet and less than scholarly approach to collecting arms and armor from Africa, anything published was propagated as the truth. We are fortunate to have the benefit of better sources and works on the subject more than half a century later.