Mystery Military Knife

Pitt1999 · 15th October 2024, 09:59 PM

I just purchased this knife and was hoping to get some opinions as to where it originates. It was sold as an Imperial German piece but it seems much more recent than that. It looks to be from the 1940's to the 1950's judging from it's patination (or lack there of). It's characteristics remind me of a German made piece manufactured for export to South America, potentially for a military contract. It is nearly void of marks other than what looks to be a number on the rear quillon.

Overall length - 15in

Blade length - 10.5in

Pitt1999 · 17th October 2024, 07:23 PM

I seem to have presented a real mystery with this one...

Interested Party · 17th October 2024, 07:33 PM

The hilt reminds me of items that came out of India/Pakistan 40-50 years ago but the guard and scabbard do not. Sory I can't be of more help. Too bad we got rid of the shrug emoji

Interested Party · 17th October 2024, 07:36 PM

I always thought they took the look from some knives made by Browning in the 1960's. I do not know what inspired the angular brown wood and brass fittings. So the answer to this knife could be illuminating.

Hotspur · 18th October 2024, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

The hilt reminds me of items that came out of India/Pakistan 40-50 years ago but the guard and scabbard do not. Sory I can't be of more help. Too bad we got rid of the shrug emoji

It does look like an Asian take on a German dress/parade Mauser bayonet The blade is even more repro looking than a German take on them, after all those using bayonet blades.

I would think not destined for South America, SA all those short blades were steel or white brass hilts.

It really does look kind of mid 20th kind of touristy.

Cheers
GC

An edit to show a WWII fireman's dress bayonet. A sold item at Horse Soldier The blades on those have a similar blade profile.
https://www.horsesoldier.com/product...quipment/36789

Pitt1999 · 22nd October 2024, 12:57 AM

I just got this knife in the mail today, unfortunately nothing to add other than it seems to have been heavily polished or cleaned at some point. The marking on the guard was nearly scrubbed off and looks to me like a collection/museum inventory number ( o22J or 022J maybe...). It has a 1"-2" false edge that does feel like it was sharpened sometimes ago. I took off the grip scales to see if there were any identifying marks on the tang but was met with more plain steel.

The only peculiar aspect I found was how the guard was in place. Conventionally I would expect the blade width to narrow at the tang and form a shoulder for the guard to sit on, with this knife the spine of the blade narrows at the tang and that is what forms the shoulder for the guard to sit on. This is probably common in military style knives but I was just never aware of it until I saw one disassembled.

Richard G · 23rd October 2024, 05:32 PM

I don't know, but to my eye it has a bit of a mexican vibe to it.
But that's all!
Regards
Richard

Jim McDougall · Today, 07:29 AM

Guys, with respect to Fernando, please observe the demarcation of 1900 which he tried to enforce here to avoid WWII militaria etc. and modern weapons.
While obviously all weapons have interest, here the 'scope of the forum' is well noted in its thread at the beginning of the forum.
He strove very hard to regulate this, and despite his passing, I think it is incumbent on all of us to respect what he worked to preserve here.
Thanks very much,
Jim

The MISC forum would be better suited for discussion on these items.

Interested Party · Today, 03:31 PM

Well said Jim. My apologies. Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes, as you know, it is easy to slip and embrace the continuity of history. The MISC forum is a good recommendation.

Fernando was always very kind to me, and generous with his knowledge of Spanish and Portuguese language source material!

Jim McDougall · Today, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Well said Jim. My apologies. Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes, as you know, it is easy to slip and embrace the continuity of history. The MISC forum is a good recommendation.

Fernando was always very kind to me, and generous with his knowledge of Spanish and Portuguese language source material!

No apologies needed Neil, and my note was of course not personally directed. Over many years I myself have often been one of the notable offenders in this, however in my case it was typically regarding arms that were traditional forms or that had transcended the turn of the century demarcation. ....the exact continuity of history you well note.

As contentious as this topic was, Fernando always patiently and wisely found resolutions which reasonably handled these instances. His profound knowledge which was focused on Portuguese and Spanish areas (his sources were amazing) of course had few bounds, despite his modesty.

The only reason I mentioned this here was as a gentle reminder to everyone to kindly carry on these valuable discussions as if Fernando was still with us, and remember the guidelines he worked so hard to keep in place.

Thank you so much for the understanding response

15th October 2024, 09:59 PM	#1
Pitt1999 Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Posts: 105	Mystery Military Knife I just purchased this knife and was hoping to get some opinions as to where it originates. It was sold as an Imperial German piece but it seems much more recent than that. It looks to be from the 1940's to the 1950's judging from it's patination (or lack there of). It's characteristics remind me of a German made piece manufactured for export to South America, potentially for a military contract. It is nearly void of marks other than what looks to be a number on the rear quillon. Overall length - 15in Blade length - 10.5in Attached Images

17th October 2024, 07:23 PM	#2
Pitt1999 Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Posts: 105	I seem to have presented a real mystery with this one...

17th October 2024, 07:33 PM	#3
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 461	The hilt reminds me of items that came out of India/Pakistan 40-50 years ago but the guard and scabbard do not. Sory I can't be of more help. Too bad we got rid of the shrug emoji

17th October 2024, 07:36 PM	#4
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 461	I always thought they took the look from some knives made by Browning in the 1960's. I do not know what inspired the angular brown wood and brass fittings. So the answer to this knife could be illuminating.

22nd October 2024, 12:57 AM	#6
Pitt1999 Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Posts: 105	I just got this knife in the mail today, unfortunately nothing to add other than it seems to have been heavily polished or cleaned at some point. The marking on the guard was nearly scrubbed off and looks to me like a collection/museum inventory number ( o22J or 022J maybe...). It has a 1"-2" false edge that does feel like it was sharpened sometimes ago. I took off the grip scales to see if there were any identifying marks on the tang but was met with more plain steel. The only peculiar aspect I found was how the guard was in place. Conventionally I would expect the blade width to narrow at the tang and form a shoulder for the guard to sit on, with this knife the spine of the blade narrows at the tang and that is what forms the shoulder for the guard to sit on. This is probably common in military style knives but I was just never aware of it until I saw one disassembled.

23rd October 2024, 05:32 PM	#7
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 405	I don't know, but to my eye it has a bit of a mexican vibe to it. But that's all! Regards Richard

Today, 07:29 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,934	Guys, with respect to Fernando, please observe the demarcation of 1900 which he tried to enforce here to avoid WWII militaria etc. and modern weapons. While obviously all weapons have interest, here the 'scope of the forum' is well noted in its thread at the beginning of the forum. He strove very hard to regulate this, and despite his passing, I think it is incumbent on all of us to respect what he worked to preserve here. Thanks very much, Jim The MISC forum would be better suited for discussion on these items.

Today, 03:31 PM	#9
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 461	Well said Jim. My apologies. Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes, as you know, it is easy to slip and embrace the continuity of history. The MISC forum is a good recommendation. Fernando was always very kind to me, and generous with his knowledge of Spanish and Portuguese language source material!