Question about "scimitars"

Jim McDougall · 30th September 2024, 08:46 PM

The term 'scimitar' is more of a corruption derived from probably the mid 16th century Persian term for saber, 'shamshir', which became the Italian 'scimitarra' in the effort in translating . While never referring definitively to a specific sword form, it meant collectively a curved, exotic saber.

The term itself became popularized in that sense and romanticized in the colorful writing of European writers and especially Victorian novelists of the 19th c.

The saber itself has brought much consternation as to its origins, where, when and by whom...but generally it seems that these light, curved swords began around 9th century in Khurasan or some Central Asian nomadic context, favored for slashing cuts from horseback.

In the Dar al Islam, it seems that primarily the swords used were double edged broadswords, though there was incidental use of the saber during the Crusades and of course following, as Turkic tribes brought the saber westward. It is a very complex history as to the specifics of the types of sabers which evolved in varying regions; India; Middle East; Arabia; Turkey; Central Asia etc.

Terms such as tulwar, shamshir, kilij, are collective terms for sword in general in the various languages. However they have become stereotyped into certain distinct forms by writers and collectors so it is difficult to elaborate on etymological correctness. The term scimitar is basically a romantic term for any type of saber, especially if unusually exotic in appearance.

Interested Party · 1st October 2024, 04:29 AM

Kirill Rivkin and Brian Isaac's "A Study of the Eastern Sword" is a good starting point that is fairly assessable for research on this subject.

Good luck and welcome!

Jim McDougall · 2nd October 2024, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Kirill Rivkin and Brian Isaac's "A Study of the Eastern Sword" is a good starting point that is fairly assessable for research on this subject.

Good luck and welcome!

ABSOLUTELY excellent recommendation!!! a well written and thorough resource by two brilliant scholars on these topics.

30th September 2024, 08:46 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	The term 'scimitar' is more of a corruption derived from probably the mid 16th century Persian term for saber, 'shamshir', which became the Italian 'scimitarra' in the effort in translating . While never referring definitively to a specific sword form, it meant collectively a curved, exotic saber. The term itself became popularized in that sense and romanticized in the colorful writing of European writers and especially Victorian novelists of the 19th c. The saber itself has brought much consternation as to its origins, where, when and by whom...but generally it seems that these light, curved swords began around 9th century in Khurasan or some Central Asian nomadic context, favored for slashing cuts from horseback. In the Dar al Islam, it seems that primarily the swords used were double edged broadswords, though there was incidental use of the saber during the Crusades and of course following, as Turkic tribes brought the saber westward. It is a very complex history as to the specifics of the types of sabers which evolved in varying regions; India; Middle East; Arabia; Turkey; Central Asia etc. Terms such as tulwar, shamshir, kilij, are collective terms for sword in general in the various languages. However they have become stereotyped into certain distinct forms by writers and collectors so it is difficult to elaborate on etymological correctness. The term scimitar is basically a romantic term for any type of saber, especially if unusually exotic in appearance.

1st October 2024, 04:29 AM	#2
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 465	Kirill Rivkin and Brian Isaac's "A Study of the Eastern Sword" is a good starting point that is fairly assessable for research on this subject. Good luck and welcome!